The wonderful thing about Western propagandists is that it's propagandists really believe the shit they say. And it's all the more pernicious - along a certain axis - precisely because of that sincerity. — StreetlightX
One thing I find disturbing about this whole discussion about propaganda is the inherent racism. — Isaac
No. I was disagreeing because measures of press freedom are not measures of press dominance. — Isaac
But we were talking of propaganda dominance, not 'press dominance', whatever that means. — Olivier5
If the state can forbid all independent media, it can totally dominate the narrative. Think about it. It's not that hard to understand. — Olivier5
Instead of bringing freedom, the fall of the oppressive authority thus gives rise to new and more severe prohibitions. How are we to account for this paradox? Think of the situation known to most of us from our youth: the unfortunate child who, on Sunday afternoon, has to visit his grandmother instead of being allowed to play with friends. The old-fashioned authoritarian father’s message to the reluctant boy would have been: “I don’t care how you feel. Just do your duty, go to grandmother and behave there properly!” In this case, the child’s predicament is not bad at all: although forced to do something he clearly doesn’t want to, he will retain his inner freedom and the ability to (later) rebel against the paternal authority.
Much more tricky would have been the message of a “postmodern” non-authoritarian father: “You know how much your grandmother loves you! But, nonetheless, I do not want to force you to visit her – go there only if you really want to!” Every child who is not stupid (and as a rule they are definitely not stupid) will immediately recognize the trap of this permissive attitude: beneath the appearance of a free choice there is an even more oppressive demand than the one formulated by the traditional authoritarian father, namely an implicit injunction not only to visit the grandmother, but to do it voluntarily, out of the child’s own free will. Such a false free choice is the obscene superego injunction: it deprives the child even of his inner freedom, ordering him not only what to do, but what to want to do.
beneath the appearance of a free choice there is an even more oppressive demand than the one formulated by the traditional authoritarian father, namely an implicit injunction not only to visit the grandmother, but to do it voluntarily, out of the child’s own free will. Such a false free choice is the obscene superego injunction: it deprives the child even of his inner freedom, ordering him not only what to do, but what to want to do.
Indeed it can. So you've supplied a mechanism by which the state can dominate the narrative, well done. — Isaac
Now explain why you providing such a mechanism in any way has any relevance whatsoever to the argument that threre is a similar dominance exerted over the narrative in the west by other mechanisms.
instead of me explaining to you what you are trying to say, why don't you explain it yourself? — Olivier5
I'm not writing [it] all out again. I've already stated [it], you opposed [it] with your knee-jerk tribalism, I pointed that out...now you want to avoid that whole discussion by pretending it never started. Fascinating though they are, there's a limit to the effort I'm willing to put in to play your games. It's entertaining to watch you dance, but if it takes too much to wind you back up again... — Isaac
Does Budapest have a proper red-light district? — Bitter Crank
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