Basically the situation in Kyiv and in Mariupol are quite different. One is under siege, one isn't. — ssu
The big question is : do the people of that country have a say in how that country is being run? Peace, stability, prosperity, these things are important, but how do you get there? — FreeEmotion
The 'solution' such as it is, is to bring down capitalism so that it is not one of the competitors. That way alternative systems can compete on the grounds of their impact on human well-being rather than on the grounds of their ability to withstand the onslaught capitalism directs toward them.
That solution is not brought about by making countries more capitalist. — Isaac
Russia could go full westernized, remove Putin and corruption, have free elections, free and independent media, good education for all and be just as consumerism and capitalist as the west (which they really are anyway), and that will still be a better point of origin for future change past capitalism than how things are right now. That is my point. — Christoffer
In other words, a purely material civilization bases itself on the zero-sum game called survival of the fittest, where one wins and another loses. But from a Baha’i perspective, a divine civilization, based on the spiritual virtues of love, kindness, justice and equity, operates with a completely different framework and philosophy—that we live in a world of abundance and bounty, where prosperity for all can become a reality:
Russia is filled with uneducated people who really have no way of knowing what is true or not because they were never given any tools to figure that out. — Christoffer
However, some charities develop schools and if people could be a little patient in observation, they will see that this education has an exponential effect on the nation. Status quo changes since you get more people able to actively think about how to improve their own nation. — Christoffer
If people don't know why a corruption-free democracy is better than the status quo, they only have the status quo to live for. — Christoffer
They're depressingly subservient. It seems they have totally bought into the fact that Putin is an absolute ruler. — Wayfarer
I don't think all roads save one were cut off. And I think the trains have been moving also. — ssu
Evacuation trains have been leaving Kiev every day since at least early March. But never mind facts, let's listen to some bullshitter obsessed with proving a point :roll: — SophistiCat
Post-Second World War
Several times during the Cold War the western powers had to use their airbridge expertise.
- The Berlin Blockade from June 1948 to September 1949, the Western Powers flew over 200,000 flights, providing to West Berlin up to 8,893 tons of necessities each day.
- Airbridge was used extensively during the siege of Dien Bien Phu during the First Indochina War, but failed to prevent its fall to the Việt Minh in 1954.
- In the next Vietnam War, airbridge proved crucial during the siege of the American base at Khe Sanh in 1968. The resupply it provided kept the North Vietnamese Army from capturing the base. — Siege, Wikipedia
The siege of Khe Sanh displays typical features of modern sieges, as the defender has greater capacity to withstand the siege, the attacker's main aim is to bottle operational forces or create a strategic distraction, rather than take the siege to a conclusion. — Siege, Wikipedia
They applied pressure on all those dead civilians in Busha alright. — Olivier5
What are the real-world actual solutions to the problems in Russia and Ukraine? I think the problem with this thread is that too many sit in their comfort and invent utopias in their heads and are unable to accept that the lesser bad is the better solution at this time. — Christoffer
The point I've made is that if you take all forms of societies and pit them against each other, on a large scale, the form that has the most ability to change over time is the western version — Christoffer
solutions in the now and real-world today in terms of this conflict need a pragmatic perspective that enables actual solutions based on what is actually existing, not what utopian form of world past capitalism that we can think of, because that doesn't help anyone right now. — Christoffer
This...
Russia is filled with uneducated people who really have no way of knowing what is true or not because they were never given any tools to figure that out.
— Christoffer
...is a racist trope. — Isaac
As is...
However, some charities develop schools and if people could be a little patient in observation, they will see that this education has an exponential effect on the nation. Status quo changes since you get more people able to actively think about how to improve their own nation.
— Christoffer — Isaac
I'm not saying Christoffer is racist, but those two positions are both common racist tropes that need to be called out as such. — Isaac
Societies which are less well developed (whether governmentally or economically) suffer from a range of constraining conditions - the majority of which are created and actively maintained by the more developed nations, and it is those conditions, not a lack of intellect, which keeps them where they are. — Isaac
but that an education in essentially, 'how to think' is necessary implies that these country's natively lack such an ability. — Isaac
Status quo changes since you get more people able to actively think about how to improve their own nation. — Christoffer
To be clear - the relation to this thread - it is Russia's material conditions, not the intellectual capabilities of its inhabitants, which prevents change. — Isaac
"While Russian troops have battered Ukraine, officials in China have been meeting behind closed doors to study a Communist Party-produced documentary that extols President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia as a hero." — frank
"The humiliating collapse of the Soviet Union, the video says, was the result of efforts by the United States to destroy its legitimacy. With swelling music and sunny scenes of present-day Moscow, the documentary praises Mr. Putin for restoring Stalin’s standing as a great wartime leader and for renewing patriotic pride in Russia’s past." — frank
All the children say
We don't need another hero
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond
The thunderdome
So what do we do with our lives
We leave only a mark
Will our story shine like a light
Or end in the dark — Tina Turner - We Don't Need Another Hero
Don't you think the Chinese, being human beings, will judge for themselves if unleashing death and destruction on Ukraine makes President Putin a hero — FreeEmotion
So if Finland is the model, why not evacuate civilians like Finland did? — boethius
I'm afraid that lauding Stalin as a great man is is line with denial. — frank
You do know there's a global socialist movement don't you? I can't think of any way to interpret this question other than a rhetorical one implying you find those approaches inadequate. I can't believe you're genuinely unaware of them. — Isaac
Yes. And the counterargument takes issue with your use of 'all'. If you compare current societies, the Western ones probably experience more freedom overall than ones like Russia or China. But this is an irrelevant fact without some argument as to why we are obliged to pick from the current ones. — Isaac
As has been pointed out before, your lack of imagination, or unwillingness to read up about alternative politics, is not an argument. It's just a poor reflection of the depth of your engagement with the issues. — Isaac
But a huge population in Russia has little to no education — Christoffer
Are you serious? — jamalrob
"in Russia students of 15 years of age demonstrate a level of knowledge “below average”
"Unfortunately, the destructive practice of depriving villages of school institutions continues to this day. Optimization was carried out in accordance with the plan“Changes in the sectors of the social sphere aimed at improving the efficiency of education and science until 2018”, adopted by order of the government back in 2014. In accordance with the document, it is planned to liquidate kindergartens and schools that regional authorities recognize as ineffective. In total, until 2018, 3,639 rural kindergartens and schools were closed, and some institutions of secondary vocational education, additional education, and boarding schools for orphans were also closed.
(And the US doesn't even have a great educational system)The amount offunding in the United States is ten times greater higher thanRussia.
At present, in this indicator, our country is ten times behind China
I think what you're missing is that dictatorship works better during a crisis. That's why ancient democracies evolved into monarchies over and over.
If you have a functioning democracy, that's because you're lucky, not because you had good soil. Your country hasn't faced any major crises or wars in a while. — frank
You have the arrogance of the lucky. — frank
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