I did not work with lots of dogs or cats, but probably there are, same as in humans — stoicHoneyBadger

So if you accept that masculine and feminine behavior is controlled by brain wiring in humans that is in place at birth, then as someone who has an understanding of how biology works, you should also be open to the idea that there can be in-between form of inborn gender , just as there are intermediate forms of all kinds of other phenotypic phenomena. As a result , there can be humans who display in-between forms along a masculine-feminine scale. For instance, some biological males were born with a perceptual-affective style that is more feminine than masculine. Just as is dogs and cats, this style can impact a wide variety of behaviors. It can affect manner of speech, posture and gestures, aggressiveness , as well as which sex they are attracted to. In some cases, very feminine. Do you accept this as a reasonable biological hypothesis?

Do you accept this as a reasonable biological hypothesis? — Joshs

Certainly not. Gender is determined by chromosomes, not by how one's brain is wired. If a woman likes tinkering with cars, it does not make her a man. Same if a man is interested in ballet dancing, it does not make him a women.

Same way you can notice that males are bigger than females and declare everybody below average to be female and above average as male. :)

if blacks are committing more crimes than whites in the same circumstances, is it OK to say that it is because of racial differences ( lower IQ, higher aggression, etc. ) and that those circumstances need to be taken into account OR saying such things would be heresy, we should assume they are equal and if they are committing crimes, it is only because the white society somehow mistreated them? — stoicHoneyBadger

This is nonsensical because you begin by saying “the same circumstances,” ya racist piece of shit.

If someone would point out that your concept of men and women doesn't do your intelligence any favors, well that would be bigotry/disrespectful, right? — Harry Hindu

Don't wanna scare you but there are cases that talking with someone and hear his opinion makes you totally lose your respect for him. And yeah with racists that is very easily achieved.

Not that you should harm them or impose your opinion to them of course, but yeah there is no respect to their idiot opinions. You just ignore them,turn your back and move on.

Respect is the base you start with all humans you meet. But that doesn't mean that you can't lose respect for someone cause of his actions or words when you interact with him. You should never impose anything on him by force or harm him of course. But not respect him anymore?? Sure you can . It's your right. Same as the racist could lose respect for me cause of my opinions. His right also.

If you find that hypocrisy then your opinion is that we must respect everyone despite what his opinions or acts are, right? So I guess when you hear for example that someone is pedophile or hits his kids, or even treating bad to other people cause of their color skin, you still respect him, right??Well sorry but I don't.

recognizable behavioral differences between the genders in dogs and cats?
— Joshs

I did not work with lots of dogs or cats, but probably there are, same as in humans. — stoicHoneyBadger

I understood your response to mean that you acknowledge that female and male dogs and cats have gender-specific behavior that appears at birth. That means such behavioral differences are dictated either by chromosomes or by the hormonal environment in the womb. In either case , one cannot explain such gender-specific behaviors without assuming differences in brain structure produced either by chromosomes or hormonal factors in the womb.

But then you wrote this, which seems to contradict your first response:

Do you accept this as a reasonable biological hypothesis?
— Joshs

Certainly not. Gender is determined by chromosomes, not by how one's brain is wired. — stoicHoneyBadger

Doesn’t gendered behavior in animals stem from brain wiring , and isnt brain wiring produced either by chromosomal coding or hormonal factors in the womb? If the brains of male and female dogs are not structured slightly differently, how do you explain their gender-related differences in behavior? Or are you now disagreeing with dog breeders and experts who recognize such clear gender-related behavioral
differences? Where does masculine and feminine behavior come from in humans? Do we just make it up as we go along, or is there some basis in brain structure?

Traditional understanding of the word gender is based on chromosomes, so it can be either male or female.

It has nothing to do with how the brain is wired or what caused it. Same can be said about size difference. On average males are larger then females. But it does not mean all smaller than average specimens necessary are female. You seem to me using some backwards logic here.

Moreover "brain wiring" is not a scientific term, you can not measure it in an MRI.

↪Joshs Traditional understanding of the word gender is based on chromosomes, so it can be either male or female.

It has nothing to do with how the brain is wired or what caused it. — stoicHoneyBadger

I am asking you what causes male dogs to behave differently from female dogs, or if you are denying that they do behave differently. And I am asking you what causes masculine and feminine behavior in humans. Is it something we just make up we go along , or is there some basis in our biology?

Biology, i.e. probably hormones, of course.

↪Joshs Biology, i.e. probably hormones, of course — stoicHoneyBadger

If biology and hormones can create masculinity and femininity, why can’t they create hybrids or intermediate forms of these behaviors? Think of these as the behavioral version of hermaphroditism. Whatever biology can do, it will do, even if it is a mutation that lies outside the norm.

If biology and hormones can create masculinity and femininity, why can’t they create hybrids or intermediate forms of these behaviors? — Joshs

Well of course it does, like less masculine man, but what's your point?

If biology and hormones can create masculinity and femininity, why can’t they create hybrids or intermediate forms of these behaviors?
— Joshs

Well of course it does, like less masculine man, but what's your point? — stoicHoneyBadger

That your son could be one of these ‘intermediates’. For instance, if your son turned out to be a very effeminate gay man I would assume you would
recognize that you and he could no more change that behavior significantly tha you could change yourself
from masculine to feminine.

Still not sure I understand what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

if your son turned out to be a very effeminate gay man I would assume you would
recognize that you and he could no more change that behavior significantly tha you could change yourself
from masculine to feminine. — Joshs

↪Joshs Still not sure I understand what does it have to do with the topic at hand? — stoicHoneyBadger

Just curious if that scenario would impact your advice to your son on how to be a man, and if so, how.

Just curious if that scenario would impact your advice to your son on how to be a man, and if so, how. — Joshs

Hmm, I guess not.

Not necessary, but still there are body and goal differences between boys and girls, which need to be taken into account. — stoicHoneyBadger

The goal differences are not so important any more to many people, there are many men doing traditionally female work and women doing men's work. The reason there are not more of them doing it is because society still disapproves of having to pay equal wages to both for the same work. And in a world were machines do a lot of the heavy work, body differences make less of a reason that before. So to justify what you say it means that the female body is only going to be looked at for breeding purposes.

Like why would you think that building a career is better, than having kids? — stoicHoneyBadger

I never said one was better than the other, many women have both. And it would be better for the kids if they had two parents capable of supporting them. If your wife wanted to go out and work, leaving you at home with the kids, would you accept that?

Depends on situation, context, etc. Like would you encourage your son to weak wife's high heels to school? Why not, those are just shoes. :) — stoicHoneyBadger

No, I would not encourage my sons to go to school in high heels, but the same would apply to my daughters as well. Only an idiot would even dream of letting kids go to school in high heels because of the danger involved. And my kids would probably understand the danger and not even think about doing it.
Do you remember the 60's and 70's?


https://www.1stdibs.com/en-gb/fashion/accessories/shoes/mens-original-1970s-glam-rock-band-silver-platform-boots/id-v_110055/

Gawd, were men really wearing high heels back then? WTF.

My brother used to were stuff like this.

Like I say "boys should learn boxing" you replay with "aaa! you wants to leave the girls defenseless!"... wft. — stoicHoneyBadger

Apart from the "she might get hurt and made ugly" or "who wants to look at a muscular girl" excuses what valid reason do you have for excluding girls. Give me one valid reason if you can.

If your wife wanted to go out and work, leaving you at home with the kids, would you accept that? — Sir2u

No way, he wouldn't have time to meditate, workout, be creative, express his worrior spirit reevaluating axioms, or do any other man stuff. Besides, it would set a bad example for Jr. moronicHoneyBadger and possibly turn the little guy queer.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You’re not doing your intelligence any favours here.
— Possibility
Another example. If someone would point out that your concept of men and women doesn't do your intelligence any favors, well that would be bigotry/disrespectful, right? I haven't seen stoicHoneyBadger identify as an idiot yet, have you? — Harry Hindu

I haven’t called him an idiot. And I wasn’t referring to his concept of men and women, but to his self-acclaimed authority to answer for most men, and his feeble attempt at a character attack based on sexual orientation. Ignorance and ad hominem arguments seem to me a lack of demonstrated intelligence. The question wasn’t ‘does he have intelligence?’, but rather ‘is he using what intelligence he has here?’

Do you remember the 60's and 70's? — Sir2u

No, I'm not that old. ) Anyway, we had Brezhnev here in the 70's.

If your wife wanted to go out and work, leaving you at home with the kids, would you accept that? — Sir2u

I don't have milk, unfortunately. (

society still disapproves of having to pay equal wages to both for the same work. — Sir2u

Than why men get any employment, is women would do the same for 1/3 less? D'oh

No, I'm not that old. ) Anyway, we had Brezhnev here in the 70's. — stoicHoneyBadger

Repression is contagious, that is probable where you caught it.

I don't have milk, unfortunately. ( — stoicHoneyBadger

Pathetic side stepping the question. you do not need to produce milk to stay at home and look after the kids.

Than why men get any employment, is women would do the same for 1/3 less? D'oh — stoicHoneyBadger

Whatever! I am not even sure what you are trying to say. But if you think it is alright for women to do the same work for 2/3 the money then you are truly screwed up. Wages should be calculated evenly for everyone based on the productivity of the person not on their gender.

You are so far out of touch with reality that your kids will one day have to either tell you about it or continue to be embarrassed about your 1600's attitudes.

Bye.

I don't have milk, unfortunately. — stoicHoneyBadger

Not necessary, You've heard of baby bottles? Besides, your wife can pump it at work and save it for the baby, next day. Breast feeding is a very good thing especially for the first few months.

I know now why there are male homosexuals. The anus is so close to the vagina (ass territory or in biological jargon, perineal region) that some men can't tell the difference between 'em. :grin:

This was personal experience?

The reminds me of a joke I heard in college 57 years ago, Why does one remember these things? It was a "dumb pollock joke" told by Rick L. The joke opens with the pollock's buddy taking an urgent shit in a shoe box, and putting it under the bed. Later, the dumb pollock is having sex for the first time (with a woman). His buddy had instructed him to retrieve a condom from a box under the bed. The buddy was outside the door waiting to see how things would go. He heard the pollock yell, "Hey, there's shit in this box." The buddy called back, "turn her over, stupid; you've got the wrong box."

I know now why there are male homosexuals. The anus is so close to the vagina (ass territory or in biological jargon, perineal region) that some men can't tell the difference between 'em. :grin: — Agent Smith

I don't think anybody is here interesting in reading about your experience.

But if you think it is alright for women to do the same work for 2/3 the money then you are truly screwed up. Wages should be calculated evenly for everyone based on the productivity of the person not on their gender. — Sir2u

You might wants to re-read what I wrote. I said people are payed for their work and that woman are payed less is a myth, since if it would be true, only woman would be employed.

Not necessary, You've heard of baby bottles? Besides, your wife can pump it at work and save it for the baby, next day. Breast feeding is a very good thing especially for the first few months. — Bitter Crank

All kinds of gimmicks can be used, but what for? Isn't the natural way better, at least for most people.

I don't think anybody is here interesting in reading about your experience — stoicHoneyBadger

:lol: I'm sure everybody has had that experience. My post was simply a gentle reminder.

:lol:

that woman are payed less is a myth, — stoicHoneyBadger

Why would you write such a thing, since it's so extremely easy to check it over the Internet through numerous researches and see it for yourself??

Why would you write such a thing, since it's so extremely easy to check it over the Internet through numerous researches and see it for yourself?? — dimosthenis9

You can believe in lots of things that defy logic and reason, even in man made climate emergency, but the fact is if women would do the same work for less, why would anybody hire men?