But from a "realpolitik" perspective, it makes sense. — Manuel
If that's true, why didn't NATO accept Russia as a member back in 2000? — Manuel
Contain China? Where? They're going to some areas in the South China Sea, but are surrounded by countries with fire power.
Let's keep it that way. China's system is evil and repressive. The more enemies it has the better. — RogueAI
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a 1988 book by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. It argues that the mass communication media of the U.S. "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function, by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and without overt coercion", by means of the propaganda model of communication.[1] The title refers to consent of the governed, and derives from the phrase "the manufacture of consent" used by Walter Lippmann in Public Opinion (1922).[2] The book was honored with the Orwell Award.
The introduction describes man's inability to interpret the world: "The real environment is altogether too big, too complex, and too fleeting for direct acquaintance"[2] between people and their environment. People construct a pseudo-environment that is a subjective, biased, and necessarily abridged mental image of the world, and to a degree, everyone's pseudo-environment is a fiction. People "live in the same world, but they think and feel in different ones."[3]
Public Opinion proposes that the increased power of propaganda and the specialized knowledge required for effective political decisions have rendered the traditional notion of democracy impossible.
Specifically, it is seeking air and naval facilities on the island of Skyros that could be used by either rotational or permanent U.S. units, Kathimerini reported.
Skyros is in the center of the Aegean and would give U.S. ships and aircraft quicker access to the Black Sea, where NATO has sought to expand operations over concerns about Russian aggression.
U.S. European Command has stepped up operations across Greece over the past few years, establishing a steadier foothold in the strategic eastern Mediterranean in response to Russia.
China’s growing economic clout in the area, which includes control of the Greek port at Piraeus, also concerns U.S. military officials.
So I’m explicitly asking you - now for the fifth time - to provide evidences of such claim “the rich oppress the poor far more consistently than one nation oppresses another”. — neomac
I don’t see the point of your claim “defending one's nation' alone is insufficient as a moral reason” since the “insufficiency” qualification by comparison to other alleged more relevant moral reasons (e.g. fighting against the ruling class, which you admit can be unacknowledged by the oppressed) doesn’t question the fact that Ukrainians actually have an acknowledged moral reason to fight for defending their nation and therefore feel compelled to act upon it as they do. — neomac
OK then what is the relation between Russian and Ukrainian rich people being in a luxury yachts, while Russian and Ukrainian children starve do death in their rubbish, with the fact that Russian soldiers are exterminating Ukrainian families and children? — neomac
So you are not claiming that the war in Ukraine is a war between American and Russian expansionism as great power politics in Mearsheimer-lingo, now?! — neomac
if your moral position and choices should not be constrained within a de facto clash of dominance between American and Russian powers, then also Zelensky moral position and choices should not be constrained within what a de facto war situation is, especially as framed by the enemy. — neomac
You should tell me! You talked about multi-causal analysis, I didn’t! — neomac
I made my moral assessment based on a posteriori comparative evaluation concerning how much Zelensky’s choices reflect what Ukrainians actually value (defending Ukraine from Russian aggression), how much Ukrainian values are closer to Westerners wrt Russians (Ukrainains are more open to westernization), how much proportionate Russian response to the claimed threat from Ukrainians was, how much Russian aggressive expansionism is an actual existential threat to the West (given the actual Russian cyberwar against the West, the actual nuclear threat against the West, the actual Russian aggressive expansion in Ukraine, the Middle East and Africa, and Putin’s actual aspirations to a new world order), and so on, and my conclusion is that I have moral reasons to side with Zelensky’s resistance against Russia. — neomac
if you contrast a Russian puppet government wrt Zelensky’s, praise the first and blame the second — neomac
Sure, but that’s also why you would consider the poor/Palestinian parents immoral because they are knowingly exposing their children to death/sickness/starvation/misery. — neomac
What are the other solutions you are talking about? — neomac
What is the point of such claims, in particular the part I put in bold? I see none. — neomac
I have no idea what “the outcome continued war is compared to matters.” is supposed to mean. — neomac
P1. If, in the Ukrainian-Russian negotiation, demands are unacceptable [p] or the assurances aren’t enough [q], then the negotiation fail [r]
P2. In the Ukrainian-Russian negotiation, negotiation demands were unacceptable [p] and assurances weren’t enough [q]
C. The negotiation fail [r] — neomac
Yes I’m claiming there are moral reasons to back a particular strategy, and the particular strategy is supporting Zelensky’s resistance against Russian aggression. Does that sound new to you after all I already, repeatedly and extensively said? — neomac
> Fine. Replace all my uses of US, NATO and Europe with the names of their current leaders and influences and then answer the questions.
That’s your job. When you do your job, I’ll do mine. — neomac
you are just saying that one party has to converge to the requests of the other party as they are formulated. — neomac
I would understand better if you could show me how you would answer to your own question: “If the outcomes of strategic decisions are beyond your expertise, then why do you choose to trust the experts and leaders supporting your current position and not those supporting the alternatives?” — neomac
I was contrasting their opinion with yours and I explained why.
If you can suggest military and foreign policy experts or political commentators that disagree with my views or support your views, I’m open to have a look at them, of course. — neomac
It doesn’t look likely to me. — Punshhh
I'm not being right lipped about assessments. Here is one for the current conflict — Count Timothy von Icarus
Tightlipped? If I remember correctly (I may remember incorrectly), you are the one making accusations of me keeping here a blog and putting links and that I should go and see a therapist. — ssu
wouldn't likely launch WW3 now. — ssu
What's scary right now is that Sweden still hasn't 100% decided and it would be a clusterfuck if we didn't join while Finland did. Russia would probably invade Gotland to keep a buffer zone in the Baltic sea if that happens. — Christoffer
We’re all laymen here, or hadn’t you noticed. I’m making a substantive point, which you haven’t countered. That a new iron curtain is descending across Europe.(not a physical barrier, but one in terms of commerce and immigration, or emigration)Your assessment of the likelihood is irrelevant. I just can't get my head round the enthusiasm with which a load of armchair laymen want to speculate about the likelihoods, it's like we're betting on a boxing match.
Well welcome to a debating society. If you can’t take the heat don’t enter the kitchen.I find it more than a little disturbing.
So you admit to being a layman. That’s a good start.What I'm talking about are the factors that we, as laymen, get to deal with - whose story do you trust and why?
I don’t trust anyone’s story, I don’t need to, I make my own assessment. — Punshhh
Now what does a resolution to this conflict look like, without an iron curtain between Europe and Russia? — Punshhh
Now what does a resolution to this conflict look like, without an iron curtain between Europe and Russia? — Punshhh
We’re in the 21st century. There are multiple media resources. — Punshhh
So, without that iron curtain. After the conflict has been resolved. Will every Russian citizen be free to emigrate? — Punshhh
A resolution of this conflict might look like the death of Putin — Olivier5
And when growing numbers of people emigrate due to the dire standard of living in Russia due to sanctions etc. Presumably Putin will seek to restrict the numbers leaving. ( presumably you can see where this is leading)emigration would be relatively free.
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.