Theres the old saying, "nothing ventured nothing gained," but there is another side to it that might not be as often discussed and thats, "nothing ventured nothing lost." If you ask for something or try to get something, you might get what you're seeking or you might not. If you don't get what you're seeking, a date, a promotion, a job opportunity, ect. that can result in a loss. What kind of loss? the kind of loss you deal with when you get rejected. Rejection can suck, it can be embarrassing and its a blow to the ego, so that's something that should be taken into consideration if you're going to ask for something or try to get something. — HardWorker

You can find out valuable information through rejection, but then again you could just be wasting your time. The more valuable information you can gain then the more the advantage is yours. The less you learn then the more rejection reduces to merely a wasting of time.

but there is another side to it that might not be as often discussed and thats, "nothing ventured nothing lost." — HardWorker

I beg to differ. Think of the law of 100%. You could only lose something that you already own. If you didn't get that promotion, you didn't lose anything since you never had in the first place. I think we often make a mistake in thinking that the opposite of gain is loss. It's not. The opposite of gain is not-gain.

Rejection can suck, it can be embarrassing and its a blow to the ego, so that's something that should be taken into consideration if you're going to ask for something or try to get something. — HardWorker

But it's already part of the equation. The reason we say "nothing ventured nothing gained" so much is that, normally, the psychological balance lies in favour of "nothing ventured nothing lost", because of our fear of rejection and humiliation, the fear of a loss of status in the eyes of our peers, and the fear of emotional pain. It's our default position. Most of us need an extra push to take a risk.

risk — jamalrob

:up:

There's such a thing as a calculated risk and my hunch is "nothing ventured, nothing gained" applies to only this particular kind of taking chances. Gambling, I'm told, can be a very intellectual activity if one only attends to the mechanics of probability. Of course whether calculated risks are true games of fortune is debatable.

I beg to differ. Think of the law of 100%. You could only lose something that you already own. If you didn't get that promotion, you didn't lose anything since you never had in the first place. I think we often make a mistake in thinking that the opposite of gain is loss. It's not. The opposite of gain is not-gain.

What you could lose by not getting the promotion is that your ego could be hurt and your hopes could be dashed, so there's that to lose.

Rejection can be painful and it comes in many forms. Perhaps, the interpretations need revisiting, especially the labels of success and failure. It may that going beyond these can be a starting point for transforming negatives into positives. Bad experiences can be learned from and if the sense of rejection and rather than breaking down the ego and self esteem completely it may give rise to inner strength and resilience.

What you could lose by not getting the promotion is that your ego could be hurt and your hopes could be dashed, so there's that to lose. — HardWorker

What are you losing? The confidence that your ego is invincible or that hope alone enables? These are illusions, and losing them only increases your awareness of reality.

What you could lose by not getting the promotion is that your ego could be hurt and your hopes could be dashed, so there's that to lose. — HardWorker

But you don't have to. I don't think you're understanding what I say when I say, you didn't lose something you didn't own in the first place. I'm talking about concrete. But you're talking in the sense of emotional perception. If you don't risk going after something, then you don't risk losing your ego-- this is what you're saying. Some people actually do not lose their ego.

Rejection can be painful and it comes in many forms. Perhaps, the interpretations need revisiting, especially the labels of success and failure. It may that going beyond these can be a starting point for transforming negatives into positives. Bad experiences can be learned from and if the sense of rejection and rather than breaking down the ego and self esteem completely it may give rise to inner strength and resilience. — Jack Cummins

Once you break something and you don't/can't keep track of the pieces, and you try to restore the object, lego-like, what you end up is usually not what you started with.

A (whole) $\to$ l l l (broken) $\to$ H ("restored") :grin:

The new Lego building may be a better model than the original, as the revised upgrade. Beyond the metaphor, the person who has experienced the suffering of rejection. Both rejection and failure may lead to greater depths of awareness. Of course, it is not automatic and requires hard work, and this may be the challenge. Not all the rejected outsiders can put the fragmented aspects of the broken self together again.

The basis on which I say this is I have met different people who have been rejected or labelled as 'failures'. If they can overcome the woundedness they often have a greater depth than those who have been accepted always. There is a shamanic aspect to it.

Also, the more risks one takes, it is more likely that success will come eventually. Life is risky and not easy, but it may be it is not good for everyone to walk around with gigantic inflated egos all the time because humility rather than pride may be the path to compassion.

My motto is, "No one ever accomplished anything by doing nothing."

Who knows what things like rejection/acceptance, suffering/joy will do to you. I believe all those positive spins people give to misery are just attempts to, at the end of the day, make yourself feel better about experiences like being left out in the cold or double-crossed or shamed or cancelled, etc.. Some dark clouds, unfortunately, don't have that silver lining one could latch on to tide over rough times. Some of us simply grin and bear it. Believe you me, there's nothing at all worthwhile in suffering. It hurts (a lot) and that's all there is to it.

:smile:

I am not suggesting that suffering or rejection are desirable, but that when they occur it is best to try and meet the challenges and not give up. The people who never have the negative experiences are fortunate. It is simply that I was discussing such experiences with a friend and we came to the conclusion that people who have been through difficult experiences are often deeper. The experiences may lead some on a philosophy quest, but, of course, not everyone who has an interest in philosophy has experienced rejection.

Ok, ok! :smile:

But you don't have to. I don't think you're understanding what I say when I say, you didn't lose something you didn't own in the first place. I'm talking about concrete. But you're talking in the sense of emotional perception. If you don't risk going after something, then you don't risk losing your ego-- this is what you're saying. Some people actually do not lose their ego.

Lets say you were hoping to get a promotion. You were looking forward to getting the promotion, you were looking forward to taking on the new position you would take on if you got the promotion. You were looking forward to making more money as promotions usually involve raises and you were looking forward to living the kind of lifestyle you can live when you make more money which you would've been doing had you got the promotion, and you don't get the promotion. You had all these hopes to do all the stuff that I mentioned above and now those hopes are dashed. So is that a loss? I will say this much, it can be very painful when you don't get the promotion you were hoping to get and you don't get to do all the stuff you were hoping to do when you got the promotion, which you don't end up getting.

Inspired by Diogenes?

You had all these hopes to do all the stuff that I mentioned above and now those hopes are dashed. So is that a loss? I will say this much, it can be very painful when you don't get the promotion you were hoping to get and you don't get to do all the stuff you were hoping to do when you got the promotion, which you don't end up getting. — HardWorker

*Sigh* you just repeated yourself while ignoring what I just said. You are speaking in terms of emotional perception. You didn't have the job of a manager, but you're hoping to get promoted and get that job. But now, you didn't get promoted, so you lost that job? Wrong.

And no, you didn't lose the increase in salary. Or you didn't lose that corner office with large windows overlooking the bluff.

*Sigh* you just repeated yourself while ignoring what I just said. You are speaking in terms of emotional perception. You didn't have the job of a manager, but you're hoping to get promoted and get that job. But now, you didn't get promoted, so you lost that job? Wrong.

And no, you didn't lose the increase in salary. Or you didn't lose that corner office with large windows overlooking the bluff.

So you're saying that when you get rejected you aren't losing anything because whatever you got rejected from was stuff you didn't have in the first place.

So you're saying that when you get rejected you aren't losing anything because whatever you got rejected from was stuff you didn't have in the first place. — HardWorker

Yes. The law of 100%.

Yes. The law of 100%.

Well even if you aren't losing anything the fact remains that rejection can be very painful, painful to the point in which it might lead to suicide, an example would be in Japan when people don't get into college.

Well even if you aren't losing anything the fact remains that rejection can be very painful, painful to the point in which it might lead to suicide, an example would be in Japan when people don't get into college. — HardWorker

I get what you're saying. In that regard, let's change your question to What's the harm to you if you venture out or take a risk?

You were looking forward to making more money as promotions usually involve raises and you were looking forward to living the kind of lifestyle you can live when you make more money which you would've been doing had you got the promotion, and you don't get the promotion. You had all these hopes to do all the stuff that I mentioned above and now those hopes are dashed. So is that a loss? — HardWorker

Rejection (already a value laden term) is complex and could be understood from multiple perspectives. Which version you settle upon may say a lot about your broader sense of self and your relative psychological fragility. If 'rejection' is painful to you, it might be because a lot more is going on than mere rejection.

You might see rejection as an ontological threat, as a negation of self - you are worthless and undeserving. You might see rejection as failure - you have let down yourself or family. You might see rejection as a personal attack - your boss is deliberately fucking with you. You might see rejection as a failure of preparation - you needed to try harder. You might see rejection as pay back - you should have been more faithful to god. You might see rejection as a subversion of the natural order - you had an expectation to be given that job. You might see rejection as an opportunity to enhance your skills - to learn and grow. Etc...

In other words, rejection is generally understood in the context of a broader worldview and temperament. I suspect that rejection is most painful to those with inflexible and judgemental world-views.

I get what you're saying. In that regard, let's change your question to What's the harm to you if you venture out or take a risk? — L'éléphant

You risk pain, that's how I see it. When you don't get the job promotion you wanted its painful. When you don't get into the college you wanted to get into its painful. When the girl that you wanted so much to have as a girlfriend tells you no when you ask her out its painful, ect. So I would say you risk pain.

The opposite of gain is not-gain. — L'éléphant

True. And the opposite of love is non-love. And the opposite of rejection is non-rejection. But sticking to the topic: life is all about taking calculated risks. Jump from the first floor with a good technique and you're unharmed. Jump from the third floor and you're probably disabled. Jump from the tenth and join the afterlife. If God doesn't reject you ;)

:up:

You risk pain, that's how I see it. When you don't get the job promotion you wanted its painful. When you don't get into the college you wanted to get into its painful. When the girl that you wanted so much to have as a girlfriend tells you no when you ask her out its painful, ect. So I would say you risk pain. — HardWorker

Yes, this is the harm. But it's not considered a loss.

.

Speaking for myself, all the times I've been rejected (100% of the time), there's always been a very good reason for the rejection. I don't know whether to :smile: (good thinking) or :sad: (I'm defective)!

Yeap...you are right!

Yeap...you are right! — Nickolasgaspar

Why, thank you kind sir/madam/other! :smile: