Supporting Ukraine’s Euro-Atlantic Aspirations: As the United States and Allies reaffirmed in the June 2021 NATO Summit Communique, the United States supports Ukraine’s right to decide its own future foreign policy course free from outside interference, including with respect to Ukraine’s aspirations to join NATO. We also remain committed to assisting Ukraine with ongoing reforms.
Too many Ukrainians, Zelensky told us, died not in battle, but “in the act of torture.” Children got frostbite hiding in cellars; women were raped; elderly people died of starvation; pedestrians were shot down in the street. “How will these people be able to enjoy the victory?” he asked. “They will not be able to do to the Russian soldiers what [the Russians] did to their children or daughters … so they do not feel this victory.” — The Atlantic
I think he (Putin) will portray this as he has been correct all along. See how treacherous Finland and Sweden have been? The West is out to get fortress Russia all along! That's the official line in Moscow. Old puny enemies are gathering up. So likely we will be portrayed as nazis too who discriminate ethnic Russians and are the worst scum on Earth. — ssu
Thanks for the info. I was trying to give a fair hearing to the idea that the Ukraine invasion was provoked or partially provoked by the US. The more I learn, the more absurd that seems.
Do you agree with that? Or do you still think provocation was part of the story here? — frank
Having trouble threading together these two narratives myself. The threat of Russia driving countries into the arms of the world's largest military alliance for protection apparently comes from the same Russia whose incompetent command, out-of-date weapons, and brainless rank-and-file are being outmatched by the world's 22ndth largest military. — Isaac
Join Nato? Because they had too much corruption up until just recently. They kicked out the pro-Russian people and started working against state and societal corruption. Nato demands a core focus on democratic stability so they couldn't have joined earlier. And this is probably one reason why Putin acted to invade now, the timetable became shorter, if not now, then never and he would never have had any chance of reclaiming Ukraine. The problem for Putin is that he sees Western standards as weak, so I guess he thought that when the pro-Russian people were kicked out, Ukraine would have sunken into the decadence of the west and would be easy to invade, but if he actually understood history, then he would know that people fighting for freedom are the fiercest of all. — Christoffer
You guys are grasping at straws now. — Olivier5
There are already reports of Russian troops digging up recently buried Ukrainians and incinerating them with mobile incinerators in Mariupol. If they take Mariupol there will be 100,000 civilians to account for. Many are likely already starving to death. — Punshhh
Nato will never attack Russia so any idea from them about acting to be secure from that risk is pure nonsense. — Christoffer
I'm interested to hear what you mean by that? Nato is still misunderstood, almost intentionally (so it's easier to be apologetic to Russia), and people don't understand article 5 or how the process of joining or how decisions are made within Nato. Some think Nato is being controlled by the US and when pointing out that it's a rule by the many, they still position that everyone is being controlled by the US anyway, which is batshit insane. Sweden and Finland joining Nato are being described as an act "controlled by the US" and I just think that idea is delusionally indoctrinated bullshit by people unable to hold more thoughts than their own ideological skewed ideas in mind. We want it because we have fucking lunatics in Russia sitting on military might that we need to be able to shoot down if needed. — Christoffer
There's no provocation that is reasonable as a reason for Russia's acts either in Ukraine or elsewhere. Russia is pretty much proven to be a war criminal at this point, on the brink of genocidal acts. — Christoffer
Anyone defending these acts should take a long hard look in the mirror and either reject it or accept being part of it by defending it. — Christoffer
It was a long time since we had this clear cut good and bad dichotomy — Christoffer
I will not be part of future analyses of stupid human behavior, I will be part of the ones who stood against such bullshit. History will show who's stupid and gullible. — Christoffer
Could be the real story. Could be made up to show that the Ukrainian made Neptune works deter future amphibious assaults. They did just get Harpoon missiles from the UK, although those are fairly antiquated, so the Neptune might be more likely. — Count Timothy von Icarus
I agree that the mass executions of civilians, rapes, and looting reported don't seem organized. It's more indicative of terrible discipline, maybe ethnically motivated in the case of some units, but that's impossible to say. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Worth remembering that Russia was indeed led to believe that NATO wouldn't advance beyond 1990 borders. — Xtrix
I was already writing this before I saw your last post, I will include a link at the bottom. I’m not saying this is actually happening. But there are numerous reports in the media. — Punshhh
The propaganda push will basically be naturally to the Russians themselves. But yes, there's also a crowd in the West that is willing to such lies as truth.Some experts are already pointing out that we are being compared to a Hitler alliance in Russian media. It's laughable really. — Christoffer
Worth remembering that Ukraine was indeed led to believe that Russia would respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders it had.Worth remembering that Russia was indeed led to believe that NATO wouldn't advance beyond 1990 borders.
Doesn't excuse Putin's war crimes. But if we're serious, we have to look at relevant antecedents. — Xtrix
Worth remembering that Ukraine was indeed led to believe that Russia would respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders it had.
Worth remembering that Ukraine isn't the only country that Russia has annexed territories or has intervened military in and created puppet states and frozen conflicts. And one of these countries, Moldova, has never applied to NATO, has had no intention join, but still has a "puppet state" and Russian "peacekeepers" on it's territory. — ssu
That Russia has these imperial aspirations to dominate other former Soviet states is obvious. NATO has nothing to do with it.This seems more like a poorly thought out plan to reestablish Russian dominance in these satalites, not to deal with NATO. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Because it really questions this delusional idea that war could have been avoided ...if only NATO wouldn't have enlarged itself.Why? Give me an example of the use 'remembering' these facts can be put to. — Isaac
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