They won't show themselves. Yet... — Haglund
They won't show themselves. Yet...
— Haglund
That is probably because they don't exist. — universeness
In other words, "belief" seems a developmental and atavistic vestige of childhood magical thinking in adults — 180 Proof
What causal relation? — Haglund
Gods would be the cause of a universe in which life develops.Gods are the entities that, for whatever reason, created the universe in which life develops. — Haglund
I just said you were believing for the wrong reasons. — Haglund
You didn't make a distinction between your reasons and the reasons. Now that you have you are basically admitting that the reasons are subjective, therefore no one can ever be wrong about the reason for which they believe.Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were wrong, but the reasons you gave are just not my reasons. I just don't think science alone offers meaning or reason for life. — Haglund
The observation of the universe is simply evidence that the universe exists, not what caused it to exist. What caused it to exist and where would we find the evidence of its cause? What would the evidence look like?You call the universe insufficient proof? — Haglund
Gods would be the cause of a universe in which life develops. — Harry Hindu
You didn't make a distinction between your reasons and the reasons. Now that you have you are basically admitting that the reasons are subjective, therefore no one can ever be wrong about the reason for which they believe. — Harry Hindu
The observation of the universe is simply evidence that the universe exists, not what caused it to exist. What caused it to exist and where would we find the evidence of its cause? What would the evidence look like? — Harry Hindu
How is it different?Yes. But not in the scientific cause and effect sense. It's a teleological cause. A "theleo"logical cause. — Haglund
Then you are claiming to know the mind of god? You seem to be afflicted by delusions of grandeur.My reasons are the reasons. — Haglund
Is the universe a teleological effect or a scientific effect of this teleological cause?The existence of the universe is the evidence. — Haglund
How is it different? — Harry Hindu
Then you are claiming to know the mind of god? You seem to be afflicted by delusions of grandeur. — Harry Hindu
Is the universe a teleological effect or a scientific effect of this teleological cause? — Harry Hindu
But there wasn't ever nothing. There was a god, if you claim that one of these properties of god is being eternal, but if not then how did god come from nothing? How does something come from nothing? You see, this is what happens every time I engage with the religious. Nothing but mental gymnastics that end up collapsing in on themselves without having said anything constructive, reasonable or understandable.Gods can create a universe out of nothing. They are like magicians pulling things out of a hat. For real, that is. There is no material cause preceding it (the universe). They could have done this an infinite time in the past. — Haglund
An effect of their thoughts, efforts, and creation power. — Haglund
What I'm looking for is how exactly does a teleological cause (god) form a relationship with a scientific effect (universe)? What would that relationship look like? How does something form a relationship with something else that does not share something in common? And please don't use "god" as the answer as that would just prove my assumptions about your intellectual capacity and honesty.But not in the scientific cause and effect sense. It's a teleological cause. A "theleo"logical cause. — Haglund
I'm sorry to be the one to inform you of this, but your "reality" is a bubble of your own making.Yes. Though I wouldn't call it grandeur. More a sense of reality. — Haglund
But there wasn't ever nothing. There was a god, if you claim that one of these properties of god is being eternal, but if not then how did god come from nothing? How does something come from nothing? You see, this is what happens every time I engage with the religious. Nothing but mental gymnastics that end up collapsing in on themselves without having said anything constructive, reasonable or understandable. — Harry Hindu
Anything. — Harry Hindu
For me that's not giving meaning to life. — Haglund
What is the meaning of life? In your own words or less. — god must be atheist
What is the medium in which this god existed and that divides the god from what it creates. If god and universe are not the same things (as it is in some other religions), then what is the medium that divides them. That must also exist, no?There never was nothing. The gods are eternal. But they created the universe outa nothing. It wasn't there and the next moment it was there. — Haglund
good luck in getting a straight answer. :smile:I am sorry, but I asked a straight question, — god must be atheist
Sounds like scientists performing an experiment.The meaning, the reason, for all life, in my humble opinion, is that the universe, or at least the particles making it up, were created by gods, so, for whatever reasons they had for it, so we and all creatures developed as a copy of heaven, so they can watch us. — Haglund
And now that we settled that, I'll ask you, what end does that meaning serve you with — god must be atheist
Sounds like scientists performing an experiment — Harry Hindu
I am sorry, but I asked a straight question, to which you answered (as far as I can see) that the meaning for your life is that the gods can watch us. — god must be atheist
The only meaning it serves for me is that science can't provide the reason. It gives meaning to my being. A reason for me being there. — Haglund
A reason for me being there. Which science can't provide — Haglund
How and why should that provide you with comfort? It is more of a Cause than a Reason. — god must be atheist
We use reasons as the causes of our behaviors. Reasons, intentions and motives are just particular types of causes. "God created the universe" is also a description from a distance - just a different type of description - one that has no evidence. It's really no different, and has no more evidence for, the description that extra-dimensional aliens genetically engineered humans and are watching them.It's the reason for existence. They had good reason to let universal life continue their mad plays in heaven.
This knowledge gives me more comfort than the story atheists like Dawkins and Harris throw around, hitting themselves on the chest. All scientific knowledge, and as a physicist I can play the game along, is just a description from a distance. Knowing the gods made the universe evolving gets you actually involved in life without anyone being scientifically able to explain me. — Haglund
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