Personally, I would not refer to time as measured by a clock as "physical time". I would call it "clock time" or some such. Time as measured by a clock is stochastic. It only follows from the second law of thermodynamics, which is not fundamental law. It doesn't even make an assertion that is true in all possible worlds that have the same fundamental law as ours. And that have a Bug Bang.
There is a possible world where my fair coin has always come up heads, even though I have tossed it a quadrillion times. Likewise, there is a possible world in which my pocket watch has always run backwards, without being broken in any way. — Douglas Alan
The fact that clocks are not reliable in all possible worlds, or after the heat death of the universe leads me to exactly the opposite conclusion: We should not be making any profound metaphysical conclusions at all based on clock time. We should stick to relativistic time. — Douglas Alan
Actually, you never really defined what you mean by 'relativistic time'. You say physical time is that which clocks measure. I think physics would say that a clock measures proper time, a frame independent property of any timelike worldline. Clocks, not being confined to a single point, cannot be perfect, just like the exact length of a curving road is ambiguous because the road has nonzero width.relativistic time is not identical to physical time (the time that physical clocks measure) — SophistiCat
Actually, you never really defined what you mean by 'relativistic time'. You say physical time is that which clocks measure. I think physics would say that a clock measures proper time, a frame independent property of any timelike worldline. — noAxioms
No, time without change is meaningless, as is say motion of an object in the absence of other objects. The words might as well be invisible pink unicorns.Sure. But as you note later, proper time can be well-defined even in the absence of anything to mark its passage, and that is where I see a problem. You could have a relativistic spacetime with nothing else, and formally it would still have time of every description. But would it be physically meaningful? — SophistiCat
I seem to be in the latter camp. Spacetime with nothing in it doesn't have relativistic properties.Of course, here we run into the more general question of the nature of the physical law. Are laws ontologically prior to things and events that are subject to them? Do they describe potentialities (like what would happen if that empty spacetime did have something in it to demonstrate its relativistic properties)? Or do laws serve only to connect the dots, describe the regularities in our observations? In the latter case - and only in the latter case - it would be unjustified to talk about time in the absence of anything that is time-like. I think I lean towards the Humean regularity view.
Can there be time without clocks? Surely there are primitive people and animals with an awareness of time, but they also arguably have clocks, however inaccurate. If the speed of light was a lot slower, its properties could be more apparent and intuitive to primitive beings who may not have developed accurate measurements for it yet. Similarly, our intuitive perception of time as flowing is only there because that perception makes us more fit, not because time necessarily flows.The reason we came up with the theory of relativity in the first place was to give a better account of clock-based time (among other things). Without clocks what is the point of relativity?
Meaningless. If it has stuff, I don't think it can be flat. If it were, an inertial frame could foliate the space, and it cannot.An empty, flat spacetime with a positive cosmological constant is an interesting case.
Near as I can tell, you mean something like 'coordinate time' when using the phrase 'relativistic time'. — noAxioms
Can there be time without clocks? — noAxioms
Can there be time without clocks? — noAxioms
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” — John8:58
Well, if the universe is a block of 4D spacetime, the so-called now is a slice of it. Depending on the angle of that slice, I could be coevals with Socrates or Charles Darwin or Werner Heisenberg or (even) Lucy the hominin or dinosaurs or you get the idea! — Agent Smith
And what or who determines the motion inside the block? — Haglund
Well, if the universe is a block of 4D spacetime, the so-called now is a slice of it. Depending on the angle of that slice, I could be coevals with Socrates or Charles Darwin or Werner Heisenberg or (even) Lucy the hominin or dinosaurs or you get the idea! — Agent Smith
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