free speech doesn't itself mean free of consequences
Free speech does mean speech is free from consequences, and it ought to be treated that way. — NOS4A2
There are no simple answers it seems, and, meanwhile, AA will continue to see (or claim) "Fascists" oppressing them. — jorndoe
Free speech no longer exists in our modern era. — javi2541997
Fascism is an over used word — javi2541997
free speech doesn't itself mean free of consequences — jorndoe
filter — jorndoe
Free speech allows that I may hear something that I otherwise couldn't, something that I might want to hear. On the other hand, free speech doesn't itself mean free of consequences, one might be called out and deplatformed for continually lying for example. — jorndoe
Free speech does mean speech is free from consequences, and it ought to be treated that way. — NOS4A2
So a guy comes to a dinner party at my house and starts saying derogatory things about gay people, I can't ask her to leave? So I run a business and one of my employees spouts Nazi slogans in the lunch room, I can't fire him? So a member of the YMCA curses, swears, and uses in appropriate language, they can't revoke his membership? Of course speech has consequences. — T Clark
This conflates two matters: expressing one's opinions and being generally disruptive. A nice bit of framing. — Tzeentch
The richest guy on the 2021 Forbes 400 owns the Washington Post. Number 2 now owns Twitter. Number 3 owns Facebook. Numbers 5 and 6 started Google. Numbers 4 and 9 started Microsoft. Number 10 owns Bloomberg. Free speech? You decide. Combine this w/the Citizens United formula that money equals speech & so those w/the most money are entitled to the most speech, lack of campaign finance regulation & pols who depend on $ to hold power & you've got a country sinking ever deeper into the quicksand of corruption.
So, if you're just an average American who thinks somehow Musk or some other billionaire is going to enhance the voice of the little guy on the Internet, you are a hopeless sucker who's not paying attention. And if you think that the trend toward control of public forums by billionaires is not linked to growing inequality and will not produce more of it, more division, more reshaping the narrative to suit those holding the purse strings, you deserve what's coming.
So if I'm at work and I express the opinion that Jewish and black people are inferior to white Christians and ought not be allowed to marry then it would be wrong of my boss to fire me for my remarks? — Michael
I believe one should not face legal consequences (which is what being fired from one's job is), unless it constitutes a breach of the terms of employment as agreed upon in the employment contract. — Tzeentch
So it's OK for some social media company to remove your account should you violate whatever terms and services or community guidelines you implicitly agree to in signing up? — Michael
That is a complicated issue that must not only take freedom of contract and freedom of speech into account, but also social media's role as a public forum, and the almost monopolistic position it has gained in public discourse. — Tzeentch
And also what is being said. — Michael
Should a government official be allowed to publish state secrets? — Michael
Should I be allowed to knowingly and falsely accuse someone of having committed some heinous act and incite vigilante justice? — Michael
Should you be allowed to post pornography on some popular website that children frequently visit? — Michael
Unrestricted freedom of speech wouldn't be a good thing and shouldn't be allowed. — Michael
So a woman comes to a dinner party at my house and starts saying derogatory things about gay people, I can't ask her to leave? So I run a business and one of my employees spouts Nazi slogans in the lunch room, I can't fire him? So a member of the YMCA curses, swears, and uses inappropriate language, they can't revoke his membership? Of course speech has consequences.
It’s up to you. That’s the point. You determine your actions, and therefor any penalties you dish out are the consequence of your principles and decisions, not of the words. Sorry, but speech does not have the consequences you claim it does. — NOS4A2
Too simplistic, there's more to the story, but it's not that free speech/expression ought to be ditched of course. (Once upon a time I'd have said that the only way to respond to speech is more speech.)
My words are so consequential that you can only write in questions and sarcasm. — NOS4A2
Of course speech has consequences. — T Clark
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