If Christ really existed, that could have been the reason! Too perfect. Too good to be true. Did Christ have a Jesus complex? — Hillary
Gods are only human... Some of them, that is. — Hillary
You also see hell, does your vision of heaven have room for serial killers and Donald Trump?Life in heaven is exactly the same as here. Look around you and you see heaven — Hillary
It would be interesting to get your view of what you envision would be 'a day in the life of a member of heaven.' Have you ever tried to think about it? Do you think you would still get to do science? or would that be meaningless?The difference is that life in heaven is eternal — Hillary
and we don't go there after dead. We are material, mortal, finite copies of heaven, like all of life and the universe we're living in. — Hillary
Luckily they figured it out "perfectly" (there you go!). — Hillary
Do you mean like the Penrose bounce (different Universe every time) or the whole Universe plays again like a movie on permanent replay? What would be the purpose of permanent replay?It starts all over again every big bang. So in a sense, we never die. — Hillary
Gods are only human... Some of them, that is.
— Hillary
I don't mind your 'only human' gods, Humans can cope with other humans who apply the god label to themselves but you also type 'some of them, that is,' so, our dialogue on that part continues. — universeness
Figured what out? — universeness
Do you mean like the Penrose bounce (different Universe every time) or the whole Universe plays again like a movie on permanent replay? What would be the purpose of permanent replay? — universeness
Well, what I meant was that some gods are human, some are stegosaures like, some are mice-like, and others parrot- or lion-like and slipper animal-like — Hillary
For what purpose was this done by these entities in this place you have called heaven. Why did they need to replicate themselves and how can you be sure that you are not just projecting human attempts/wishes to replicate themselves as a means of lifespan extension onto the god posit?All life in the universe has an eternal part in heaven. — Hillary
You know in science how much of that happens, don't you just need a first cause.How to create the material the universe is made of — Hillary
The purpose would be to fill the void of the boredom that fell upon heaven after their eternal playings. — Hillary
They created elementary particles and space. — Hillary
So are we back to shapeshifting gods or do you mean a god that is an actual mouse?
If so how far do you want to take that? An insect god? a lice god? a quark god?
Can you describe a typical action of your mouse god and is this god a lesser god compared to your lion god? — universeness
For what purpose was this done by these entities in this place you have called heaven. Why did they need to replicate themselves and how can you be sure that you are not just projecting human attempts/wishes to replicate themselves as a means of lifespan extension onto the god posit? — universeness
heaven place?
Would they not get quite bored with us new toys quick quickly if they got bored with everything eternal heaven had to offer them?
Does this all still sit 'perfectly' well with your own internal rationale? — universeness
I could not call myself democratic/socialist/humanist if I did but I will continue to argue against anyone who presents any theistic viewpoint as truth. — universeness
Gods are only human... Some of them, that is. — Hillary
No , you need empirical verification to identify the correct criteria and principles. — Nickolasgaspar
(Defuse thinking or Fast thinking (Daniel Kahneman).
At the end of the day we will need to Objectively evaluate every thought we make so imagination and fantasy are not necessary or sufficient or credible ways for the progress of our epistemology and philosophy. — Nickolasgaspar
The old god is the one in power before the enlightenment. The new god is the impersonal, so-called absolute, objective god of scientific thinking. Just look at all the tasks to be completed, the problems to be "solved" in the learning books, especially the math or "exact" ones. Which is all nice, I love them! But why, for example, should astrology not be learned by law? — Hillary
Argument from Ambiguity fallacy. You are talking about the steps of a verification process(after the validation of a principle) while I refer on the method we recognize the value of Verification as a principle...or any other principle.verification can only occur when there is something to verify... so verification comes after hypothesisation. — Tobias
- I think Daniel will be very sad hearing about your disapproval(or was your disapproval aiming my capital O?) .(Either way I will make this joke) I hope he finds some consolation and comfort by cashing the check he received along with the Nobel Prize we won while studying human heuristics....(.no offense).Ahh Kahneman... Objectively with a capital O... It does not impress me much. — Tobias
-Why didn't you include my first sentence? "Imagination and fantasy can only help us to come up with out of the box hypotheses and make connections that our trained minds can't make."No one will state that her hypothesis is a product of pure imagination. It also is not. Hypotheses are the product of informed imagination, the knowledge of current debate, the knowledge of the literature and knowledge of current empirical findings. However, they are organized and considered in a certain way. One cannot do that without imagination, the forward looking assessment of states of the world. — Tobias
I refer on the method we recognize the value of Verification as a principle...or any other principle. — Nickolasgaspar
((1) the law of contradiction, (2) the law of excluded middle (or third), and (3) the principle of identity.) — Nickolasgaspar
- I think Daniel will be very sad hearing about your disapproval(or was your disapproval aiming my capital O?) .(Either way I will make this joke) I hope he finds some consolation and comfort by cashing the check he received along with the Nobel Prize we won while studying human heuristics....(.no offense). — Nickolasgaspar
-Why didn't you include my first sentence? "Imagination and fantasy can only help us to come up with out of the box hypotheses and make connections that our trained minds can't make."
You cherry picking a part of my reply allowing you to argue "against" something that we are in agreement ...lol — Nickolasgaspar
What do you mean by learning astrology 'by law'? Should apply a legal perspective to astrology, or an astrological perspective to law? I really do not understand, it is not meant sarcastically or anything. — Tobias
"Imagination and fantasy can only help us to come up with out of the box hypotheses and make connections that our trained minds can't make." — Nickolasgaspar
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. — Alfred Lord Tennyson
'Tis better to have lived and suffered than never to have lived at all. — Agent Smith
Most interesting! :chin: — Ms. Marple
During the suffering though, this feels differently... What if the suffering continues? — Hillary
What I mean is that what we learn at school or universities is science. Math, physics, economy, chemistry, biology, etc. By law you have to go to school and learn about it. I don't care to learn, I was fascinated by physics and even voluntarily studied it at the VU (which you probably know). But why shouldn't, for example, astrology be learned by law? What's inherently better about science?
By law I mean that it's written in the law to go to school from young age already and learn about science. — Hillary
Of course I know the VU, been there lots of times. The reason why we teach chemmistry, physics, math etc and not astrology is cultural, but not arbitrary. — Tobias
And how did that work out? Just take a look around you to see... — Hillary
No, of course it's not arbitrary. But why is scientific culture better than other cultures (of which many have been wiped away from the face of the world by science and western religion)? — Hillary
Every culture has a proven track record of obtaining results. — Hillary
Circularity. You cannot empirically verify the value of empirical verification... One has to have had the idea that that is a pausible way to go beforehand. We also have that idea. Intuitively empirical verification makes sense. We have such notions pre-scientifically, practically.
((1) the law of contradiction, (2) the law of excluded middle (or third), and (3) the principle of identity.) — Tobias
I see a computer desk with a small notebook, thin and light. Next of me is a cup of brown liquid drawn from beans that originated somewhere in Africa or south America. I am communicating with someone possibly many miles away (or possibly my next door neighbour, since you understand Dutch and has a stint at the VU so I cannot be sure). I see a prosperity the world has not witnessed before and an abundance of what life has to offer... I know my generation will, if we are not wiped of this earth, live to become 80 years old... I know there are bad things too, but undeniably human life became a lot easier and pleasant with the scientific method. — Tobias
Do you all in here come from the say school of sophists????? oh boy here we go again.
I can validate empirically the value of Objective Verification....don't play with words just to earn impressions!!!! — Nickolasgaspar
You essentially argue in favor of Magic. Magically an idea about the value of empirical verification came in to our minds without empirical input !!! — Nickolasgaspar
The reason why Objective Verification has become a principle...IS BECAUSE its value is validated EVERY SINGLE TIME by the epistemic value claims have when they are are Objectively and Empirically verified. — Nickolasgaspar
If you observe children you will find out that they are prone to accidents and the smart ones use those accidents to correct the model of reality in their minds. This is the first empirical indications we get about the value of Objective Empirical Verification..obviously not all of us have realize that.
Systematized methods like Logic and Science just defined it and included it in their principles. — Nickolasgaspar
-Intuition isn't magic, it doesn't come out from thin ai. Our intuition is shaped and "trained" by our previous empirical experiences about our world. Read Daniel Kahneman's book on intuition and other heuristics. He won A Nobel Prize for his founding. Don't try to do philosophy without being aware of our Scientific Epistemology. IT is always a recipe for Pseudo philosophy. — Nickolasgaspar
I can validate empirically the value of Objective Verification.... — Nickolasgaspar
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