The concept of soldiers and civilians is the reality of what is changing. Soldiers don't stay away from civilians during war — universeness

So are you a professional dancer or you just tap dance in forums?lol

btw do you know anything about atomic bombs?....one thing people can not do is throw one and make excuses about being inaccurate lol

Again we are not comparing war crimes. Your silly excuse is on trial here.
Justifying the bombing of civilians for sparing soldiers' lives. Imagine if that excuse stick up......What a pleasant place to live earth would be! lol
Are you Putin's advisor.....if not....don't become one.

the mind boggling thing about you is that you objectively make really silly claims about probabilities, about war crimes...but you keep defending them, by talking about "the concept of civilian"and what Churchill's bombings etc etc.,,,
What's wrong with you? Are 13 yo or what? Are you honest enough to admit your screw ups? Why do you have to pollute this thread with your shenanigans ...do your self a favor and grow up.

So are you a professional dancer or you just tap dance in forums? — Nickolasgaspar

You want me to be more like you, a professional CHANCER? No, that wont happen. I choose not to mimic the fool BEPO.

btw do you know anything about atomic bombs?....one thing people can not do is throw one and make excuses about being inaccurate lol

Again we are not comparing war crimes. Your silly excuse is on trial here.
Justifying the bombing of civilians for sparing soldiers' lives. Imagine if that excuse stick up......What a pleasant place to live earth would be! lol
Are you Putin's advisor.....if not....don't become one — Nickolasgaspar

This is just more conflated BS!
You ignored the Churchill question. How about offering your solution Sherlock?

I can answer it. I would have made the exact same decision as Churchill but unlike him, I could not live with it. After the war, I would have destroyed myself from the guilt of it.
I think Churchill was a narcissist a self-aggrandising horror, a butcher who could live with such things.
We needed horror to combat horror. I would still have made the same decision as him but I would have tried other methods first before dropping the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. I would have invited the Japanese to a demonstration in the desert somewhere first.
I don't know if that was attempted and refused by the Japanese. There are various conspiracy theories out there regarding what happened. None are compelling against that which was reported in the mainstream.

And they say theism is the cause of war. As I read you two atheists fighting with words, no gods are needed! And the gods laugh at you from heaven! Luckily there is a large space between you. The Greek Log vs. The Scottish Tap. Fifteenth round!

the mind boggling thing about you is that you objectively make really silly claims about probabilities, about war crimes...but you keep defending them, by talking about "the concept of civilian"and what Churchill's bombings etc etc.,,,
What's wrong with you? Are 13 yo or what? Are you honest enough to admit your screw ups? Why do you have to pollute this thread with your shenanigans ...do your self a favor and grow up — Nickolasgaspar

You are back at your mirror again wicked queen! Asking that same old BS question, when you know fine well that you are the tubthumper, the brat, the toy thrower, the child in a permanent tantrum. Mommies little soldier!

And they say theism is the cause of war. As I read you two atheists fighting with words, no gods are needed! And the gods laugh at you from heaven! Luckily there is a large space between you. The Greek Log vs. The Scottish Tap. Fifteenth round! — Hillary

:rofl: Matt Dillahunty says he has more problems trying to set atheists straight, who use poor arguments and bad logic than he does with theists. I dont think Matt would think much of Nickerless Gasbag but perhaps he would plague both our houses! :halo:

You anthropomorphise Science! I choose not to. Put the blame where it fits! with humans, not gods! — universeness

The point is, science (I don't see why you write it with a capital S, it's only knowledge) can't be seen apart from people. It's not an objective, monolithic entity existing somewhere apart from us.

Matt Dillawhoty?

The point is, science (I don't see why you write it with a capital S, it's only knowledge) — Hillary

What is your purpose for humans if it's not to pursue new knowledge and seek to confirm the knowledge we have? god worship? Nature worship?

Matt Dillawhoty? — Hillary

Try a YouTube search!

What is your purpose for humans if it's not to pursue new knowledge and seek to confirm the knowledge we have? god worship? Nature worship? — universeness

The purpose is to life like the human gods. Finding out about the material they created to harbor life is nice (as you know from many conversations we already had here), but it's just knowledge. Creating knowledge is an art. With math, models, and experiments we create new patterns.

What about art, dance, music, clothes, etc. That's what makes us human and different from animals. It's nice to invent planes, cars, computers, etc. but at the same time it's a step away from humanity. We have not evolved to fly or to space travel. We have, like all animals, evolved to mimic heaven. Look at the blue lizzard!

Matt Dillahunty! The atheist preacher! Helliluyeah!!!

The purpose is to life like the human gods. — Hillary

How horrible to live like amoral gods who are according to you bored with their own existence!
Amoral because they take no responsibility for their own creations, something you accuse Science of.

Creating knowledge is an art. With math — Hillary

There is knowledge in Science, maths and art. Cant do an oil painting without first creating some oil-based pigments to paint with, along with a paintbrush, canvas, thinners, dryers etc. You even need to invent a tool to scratch an image onto a cave wall before you can have an artist.

What about art, dance, music, clothes, etc — Hillary

All activities/objects that need knowledge. You cant dance if you don't learn how to move rhythmically!
Cats, dogs, monkeys, elephants, and ants don't dance as well as humans can in my opinion.

It's nice to invent planes, cars, computers, etc. but at the same time it's a step away from humanity. — Hillary

They can also enhance humanity or would you rather swim and walk to visit another country?
Would you prefer it if humans could not communicate with each other the way we can now.
Would the actions of autocrats like Putin be easier or harder to combat if we had less global communication ability than we have at present?

Matt Dillahunty! The atheist preacher! Helliluyeah!!! — Hillary

Matt Dillahunty, a nemesis of theism.

How horrible to live like amoral gods who are according to you bored with their own existence!
Amoral because they take no responsibility for their own creations, something you accuse Science of. — universeness

That's what's all life for. To cheer them up and fill their existential void. How can I accuse Science if it's inhuman?

All activities/objects that need knowledge. You cant dance if you don't learn how to move rhythmically!
Cats, dogs, monkeys, elephants, and ants don't dance as well as humans can in my opinion. — universeness

You need knowledge of the pre big bang era to dance? All animals have knowledge? Have you seen the mating dance of the paradise birds? Stephen Fry's comments are very funniy.

They can also enhance humanity or would you rather swim and walk to visit another country? — universeness

Knowledge is just a necessary prior to life. It's not whats it about.

Matt Dillahunty, a nemesis of theism. — universeness

I consider him not the nemisis. I consider him on the same level as any other TV preacher. Nothing interesting to offer.

To cheer them up and fill their existential void — Hillary

Your god(s) sound like selfish pigs and imo, seem unworthy of your need for them or your determination to assign them existence.

You need knowledge of the pre big bang era to dance? — Hillary

Where did I mention knowledge from before the big bang as a prerequisite for human dance?

All animals have knowledge? — Hillary

I don't know, do they?

Have you seen the mating dance of the paradise birds? — Hillary

Yeah, I've seen some of it. I think from Gene Kelly, Fred Astair to Darcey Bussell, Rudolph Nureyev all the way to even.....Lady Gaga and my nieces are much better.

Knowledge is just a necessary prior to life. It's not whats it about — Hillary

and your alternative 'what it's all about,' is to keep inadequate fictitious gods entertained?

I consider him not the nemisis. I consider him on the same level as any other TV preacher. Nothing interesting to offer. — Hillary

Matt Dillahunty:
I say Yay! you say Nay! I doubt he cares one jot. He proves himself imo, every time he chews up another theist viewpoint, espoused by the theist callers to his show.

Your god(s) sound like selfish pigs and imo, seem unworthy of your need for them or your determination to assign them existence. — universeness

And not only pigs. Monkeys, mice, trees, bacteria, flees people, and even my pussies! And I like to give them a nice show! And so do all other forms of life. If they are worthy or not is not my interest. Maybe they are, maybe not. I take joy from the fact that they took care of it.

Where did I mention knowledge from before the big bang as a prerequisite for human dance? — universeness

Okay, but scientific knowledge is not needed to dance. To take pictures, a camera is needed, to paint, linen, knowledge of paint or how to use it, knowledge of varnish, and we can use computers to translate communicate or create new stuff with.

I don't know, do they? — universeness

How else can the paradise bird dance?

Yeah, I've seen some of it. I think from Gene Kelly, Fred Astair to Darcey Bussell, Rudolph Nureyev all the way to even.....Lady Gaga and my nieces are much better. — universeness

It's not who is better. We dance differently, and most people worse than the paradise bird! Science says it's a mating dance to pass on genes. But its just the way of the paradise bird gods. That's another reason I believe in gods. Science tries to explain all human and animal behavior like that.

and your alternative 'what it's all about,' is to keep inadequate fictitious gods entertained? — universeness

And ourselves! It works both ways.

Matt Dillahunty:
I say Yay! you say Nay! I doubt he cares one jot. He proves himself imo, every time he chews up another theist viewpoint, espoused by the theist callers to his show. — universeness

And I really don't care a jot about his preachings, like I don't give a jot about the phony theist TV vanhellicals!

I engaged myself in all that reasoning against theism too. "But if god... then how...and what...? Against the view I hold no, no reasoning or argument suffices.

And not only pigs. Monkeys, mice, trees, bacteria, flees people, and even my pussies! And I like to give them a nice show! And so do all other forms of life. If they are worthy or not is not my interest. Maybe they are, maybe not. I take joy from the fact that they took care of it — Hillary

I find it hard to follow your thought processes at times. Lost in translation perhaps.
Are you saying you are happy to be a performing monkey to entertain inadequate gods?

Okay, but scientific knowledge is not needed to dance — Hillary

Well, it depends what you are referring to as dance. People bobbing about to music or those who study and perform dance as a science. Do you think ballet and body poppin have no science or knowledge behind them? What is choreography, is it randomised movement to sound or does it involve intense thought that needs years of study to create those who are called expert dancers? Your birds of paradise do the same mating dance every time. Do you think your gods ever get bored watching the birds of paradise repeat their dance?
Do you think they prefer watching Michael Flately and his various versions of Riverdance, Lord of the dance etc?

To take pictures, a camera is needed, to paint, linen, knowledge of paint or how to use it, knowledge of varnish, and we can use computers to translate communicate or create new stuff with — Hillary

So you agree with what I said earlier then? Scientific endeavor gives us these options, not faith in god(s).

How else can the paradise bird dance? — Hillary

Do you expect me to answer for paradise birds?

It's not who is better. We dance differently, and most people worse than the paradise bird! Science says it's a mating dance to pass on genes. But its just the way of the paradise bird gods. That's another reason I believe in gods. Science tries to explain all human and animal behavior like that — Hillary

So these birds dance to entertain their god and it has nothing to do with attracting a mate as Science suggests it is? Is that your claim?

And ourselves! It works both ways. — Hillary

How does it work both ways? I don't see the gods you claim to commlink within your dreams and they seem to be incapable of appearing to me despite me giving them my permission.
So they provide no entertainment for me, they only cause me concern that someone with a good knowledge of science like you can be so sidetracked by woo woo god posits.
I accept your polytheism because you give me little choice even though I still think your reasons are a mix of roleplay, pissed off at cosmologists, and primal fear. You would call me fake if I did not make it clear to you that I think your beliefs are at best, irrational. I cant hide my true opinions from you.
Would you prefer I did?

And I really don't care a jot about his preachings, like I don't give a jot about the phony theist TV vanhellicals — Hillary

So, you don't care so will that stop him or does it defeat the points he makes?

I engaged myself in all that reasoning against theism too. "But if god... then how...and what...? Against the view I hold no, no reasoning or argument suffices — Hillary

My advice would be keep engaging! Don't just surrender to woo woo, at least keep your mind open. I remain open to gods. All the cowards have to do is show up and submit themselves to scientific scrutiny. If they can't then they are not gods and they don't and never have existed.

Amoral because they take no responsibility for their own creations, something you accuse Science of. — universeness

Not sure if I understand this. They take no responsibility for their creation? What should they be responsible for?

I find it hard to follow your thought processes at times. Lost in translation perhaps.
Are you saying you are happy to be a performing monkey to entertain inadequate gods? — universeness

:lol: Almost! I'm happy to be a handsome guy with an almost clownesque intelligence and maybe I make my god counterpart or other gods, in heaven laugh, cry, or neither. Frankly, I don't care what they think of me.

So these birds dance to entertain their god and it has nothing to do with attracting a mate as Science suggests it is? Is that your claim? — universeness

Of course you can look at it the scientific way. Like you can investigate all in our universe. The whole process of evolution is not to pass genes or memes (though of course this happens) but just to make life appear.

How does it work both ways? — universeness

The gods are entertained and life can enjoy life. It's good for us and good for them. Both ways.

So, you don't care so will that stop him or does it defeat the points he makes? — universeness

I don't think that will stop him. Neither will it stop the evanhellicals.

My advice would be keep engaging! Don't just surrender to woo woo, at least keep your mind open. I remain open to gods. All the cowards have to do is show up and submit themselves to scientific scrutiny. If they can't then they are not gods and they don't and never have existed. — universeness

I have never surrendered to woowoo. I keep my mind wide open, but at the same time I keep it closed for attempts to kill my "theology".

Your birds of paradise do the same mating dance every time. Do you think your gods ever get bored watching the birds of paradise repeat their dance? — universeness

They don't only dance. And yes they get bored. It's what actually happened!

How you think my vision of heaven and the gods looks like?

Not sure if I understand this. They take no responsibility for their creation? What should they be responsible for? — Hillary

Do humans have any responsibility to the children they create? Should this not apply even more to gods?

Almost! I'm happy to be a handsome guy with an almost clownesque intelligence and maybe I make my god counterpart or other gods, in heaven laugh, cry, or neither. Frankly, I don't care what they think of me. — Hillary

This is the kind of comment that you type which adds to my evidence that you are merely playing the polytheist for the sake of 'pressing the atheist's buttons.' I can play in that pen to help you sate that need but it would be more beneficial for you to seek support and inspiration for your scientific work than seek to satisfy your rather pointless dalliances with polytheism. Your theism seems to play a very insignificant role in your psyche.

The whole process of evolution is not to pass genes or memes (though of course this happens) but just to make life appear. — Hillary

All you suggest here is let's just focus on the pretty box rather than worry about its internal workings.
This does not match with your deep dive into physics. Why do you look inside the physics box? Why don't you pay much more attention to your gods and find new fun ways to entertain them. You suggest that you are perfectly happy to leave all the boxes closed. If you are content with life just appearing then why do you have any interest AT ALL regarding how or why it appears. You are just entertainment for inadequate gods, why do you try to be more significant than that?

I don't think that will stop him. Neither will it stop the evanhellicals — Hillary

So the point you were making is moot!

I have never surrendered to woowoo. I keep my mind wide open, but at the same time I keep it closed for attempts to kill my "theology". — Hillary

Surely your theology cannot be killed if you won't let it die so what are you worried about?

They don't only dance. And yes they get bored. It's what actually happened! — Hillary

I know, you have already suggested your gods are inadequate and heaven failed for them.
They seem to fail much more than they succeed. I think you project human frailties onto them. Perhaps you project your own personal frailties onto them to make sense of yourself.

How you think my vision of heaven and the gods looks like — Hillary

That's for you to offer not for me to guess!

Do humans have any responsibility to the children they create? Should this not apply even more to gods? — universeness

It does apply to gods just as well. And they worked it out pretty well. I think you have the wrong idea of heaven. You think all gods are human like. But the dino gods have literally dino shapes. It are no human shapeshifters (that's why I asked the last question). The bird gods are literally eternal birds, etc. So they did a good job in taking care of their creation. The people gods, as can be seen from their mortal material counterparts, fucked up in the preambles to creation.

All you suggest here is let's just focus on the pretty box rather than worry about its internal workings. — universeness

No. I give attention to the inner box. Im curious about the innards. Especially the pre big bang era and the neural network.

So the point you were making is moot! — universeness

What point did I make? I just said that Matt is another TV preacher.

Surely your theology cannot be killed if you won't let it die so what are you worried about? — universeness

Indeed. I have no reason to worry.

I know, you have already suggested your gods are inadequate and heaven failed for them.
They seem to fail much more than they succeed. I think you project human frailties onto them. Perhaps you project your own personal frailties onto them to make sense of yourself. — universeness

Yes, it's me that's bored with life! Come on! You can do better than that!

That's for you to offer not for me to guess! — universeness

Then how can you make claims that they are inadequate? They ard, in fact. All of them, from dog to whale, just got bored. And the used their bundled intelligences and creation power to create the necessary ingredients. Divine elementary virtual particles with the right properties and a bulk space to let them evolve in. And again, these wicked, sneaky people gods...

It does apply to gods just as well. And they worked it out pretty well. — Hillary

In what way have they 'worked it out pretty well?' You just agreed that they do have a responsibility towards that which they created so in what ways have they met that responsibility?

You think all gods are human like. — Hillary

No, I think you are perfectly aware that I think all gods are fictitious, so are you just being evasive again.
The artful dodger?

But the dino gods have literally dino shapes. It are no human shapeshifters (that's why I asked the last question). The bird gods are literally eternal birds, etc. So they did a good job in taking care of their creation. The people gods, as can be seen from their mortal material counterparts, fucked up in the preambles to creation. — Hillary

This is repetitive. I already know you think each species has its own god in the image of that species.
99% of all species that have ever been on the Earth have gone extinct so what do their gods do now?
Do they rely on you to entertain them as none of their own species is left?
It's interesting to find out how far your imagination can take this.
You will need to come up with something more Intelligible or you will remain open to constant ridicule but perhaps that's what you want as somewhere inside you think that's all you deserve.

No. I give attention to the inner box. Im curious about the innards. Especially the pre big bang era and the neural network — Hillary

Yet you want others to accept gods with no evidence accept the mere existence of life and the
Universe and you complain about science opening every box it can and you call this 'pressurising nature' You seem to struggle to balance your equations.

Yes, it's me that's bored with life! Come on! You can do better than that — Hillary

You are directing this Pony trek, only you know what's really going on in your head that manifests in your shall we say fringe polytheism. Is it mere attention seeking?

Then how can you make claims that they are inadequate? They ard, in fact. All of them, from dog to whale, just got bored. And the used their bundled intelligences and creation power to create the necessary ingredients. Divine elementary virtual particles with the right properties and a bulk space to let them evolve in. And again, these wicked, sneaky people gods.. — Hillary

You often try to merge your science knowledge with your polytheist dalliances.
Your attempts are a bit 'Hans Christian Anderson,' in style.
Your polytheistic shape will never fit into any space found in Science.
You offer a meal of sugar-coated beef steak. The vast majority of humans will reject your offer.

In what way have they 'worked it out pretty well?' You just agreed that they do have a responsibility towards that which they created so in what ways have they met that responsibility? — universeness

In the way that all life in heaven appeared in the universe. Of course each god had their own responsibility. And the human gods fucked it up for their fellow gods.

99% of all species that have ever been on the Earth have gone extinct so what do their gods do now? — universeness

Watch all other life of course. What else? Or maybe they are not bored anymore, which would be strange, because why would they show up in my dream then. Whatever might be the case, their creation still exists.

It's interesting to find out how far your imagination can take this.
You will need to come up with something more Intelligible or you will remain open to constant ridicule but perhaps that's what you want as somewhere inside you think that's all you deserve. — universeness

It's the most intelligible it can get. The universe is a material reflection of heaven. Why should I find it out in the first place if I dont like it. Im no masochist.

Yet you want others to accept gods with no evidence accept the mere existence of life and the
Universe and you complain about science opening every box it can and you call this 'pressurising nature' You seem to struggle to balance your equations. — universeness

I dont want anybody to accept gods. I dont complain about science! I graduated from university! I love science!

You are directing this Pony trek, only you know what's really going on in your head that manifests in your shall we say fringe polytheism. Is it mere attention seeking? — universeness

Dont we all seek attention? But thats not the reason to believe in gods.

You often try to merge your science knowledge with your polytheist dalliances.
Your attempts are a bit 'Hans Christian Anderson,' in style.
Your polytheistic shape will never fit into any space found in Science.
You offer a meal of sugar-coated beef steak. The vast majority of humans will reject your offer. — universeness

If that's your impression. It's not my intention to merge them. And atheist cant give scientific counters because I know more about physics than any one of them, and the gods helped me. Why should I care if people dont want to eat what I offer? I'm happy with it, and if others dont want or arent able to eat it, who cares? It could be maybe that my brain is fried by certain substances.. Science cant have a space for gods? Why not? TheoLOGY!

What's a Pony trek? And just outof interest, what's your birthday?

Maybe Im the Christ of the new age (my wife thinks Im a nutter...).