What I mean is, language itself, the symbols, contain no reality. The symbols are little works of art. On their own they are just curvy lines. But in the fertile soil of our brain they cause a flood of ideas, feelings, bodily stuff, etc. Call it enactivation. — Hillary
and dependent on the kinds of realities might or might not contain common syntax. — Hillary
Differing languages have different grammars? Or did you mean semantics? — Banno
It's usually called collective intentionality — Banno
"Intersubjective" is one of those oxymoronic terms that folk use to avoid thinking. If the subjective is private, then the notion of the "inter" subjective makes no sense. If the subjective is not private, then adding "inter" to it is superfluous.
Nothing is solved by waving such a word around. — Banno
So we are back to your recalcitrant reluctance to read.
"Intersubjective" is one of those oxymoronic terms that folk use to avoid thinking. If the subjective is private, then the notion of the "inter" subjective makes no sense. If the subjective is not private, then adding "inter" to it is superfluous.
Nothing is solved by waving such a word around.
And you should have learned by now that Meta has no idea. — Banno
See Language of thought.
You might have to do some reading, I'm afraid. Unless you can find a short youtube video that will allow you to think you have understood a complex issue without the discomfort of putting some effort into it. — Banno
“Psychological underpinnings” sounds like you think it is not a rational (analytical) claim or argument. As to learning about our motives, philosophy began as a search for self-knowledge, to better ourselves by being aware of what is right and true. I’m not claiming our thought is shaped by our psychology (though what is Plato “remembering” but what we call unconscious). Our doubt, and fear, and desire for certainty are situational, part of being human. — Antony Nickles
I'm not familiar with the particular brand of philosophy you seem to be championing. — Agent Smith
I would suggest not worrying so much about boxing things into a "philosophy" that we just defend or attack. It seems to get in the way of even starting. Good luck. — Antony Nickles
Noted! Gracias! — Agent Smith
But will you actually start to read? — Banno
The term "intersubjective" was first needed when Husserl had to backtrack after his exploration of subjectivity ran into solipsism. He needed empathy in order to bring other people into exist. An approach that seems inordinately, convolutely silly. — Banno
See, in my universe, what Husserl did is what philosophers worth their salt do/should do! Ideas seem to be always, well, pregnant so to speak - new ideas are gestating in them and at the right moment i.e. as and when necessary, they're taken to the maternity ward and delivered into the Ideaverse. In the wild they mature and memetically speaking they must be fit to survive what is essentially an assault from all directions (chakravyu re the Mahabharata). — Agent Smith
Not just any idea will do; and intersubjectivity serves to hide what is going on here by dragging it into the mire of subject/object...
Pseudo-intellectual fashion. — Banno
Actually, there is an "essence" underlying perceived reality : I call it "Information". Unfortunately, materialist scientists have ruthlessly dissected reality looking for its fundamental substance. The problem is that they imagined that substance as tiny balls of hard stuff. But eventually, Quantum researchers have been mystified to find that the foundation of material reality is mushy Mathematics (Fields of intangible potential ; invisible WaveForms ; mind-stuff). Their "substance" is essentially the Information necessary to describe the statistical probability of their physical existence at a particular place & time. So, it seems that Reality is based on illusory gambler's odds.From a Wittgensteinian standpoint there's no essence to either illusions/simulations or reality that could aid us in telling them apart. — Agent Smith
Actually, there is an "essence" underlying perceived reality : I call it "Information". Unfortunately, materialist scientists have ruthlessly dissected reality looking for its fundamental substance. The problem is that they imagined that substance as tiny balls of hard stuff. But eventually, Quantum researchers have been mystified to find that the foundation of material reality is mushy Mathematics (Fields of intangible potential ; invisible WaveForms ; mind-stuff). Their "substance" is essentially the Information necessary to describe the statistical probability of their physical existence at a particular place & time. So, it seems that Reality is based on illusory gambler's odds. — Gnomon
Only to a simulated agent (within it's native simulation) which, in that case, makes the question itself moot since "real" – ineluctable – to the agent is what matters ontologically independent of epistemology.A,simulation can't be distinguished from reality. — Agent Smith
Only to a simulated agent (within it's native simulation) which, in that case, makes the question itself moot since "real" – ineluctable – to the agent is what matters ontologically independent of epistemology.
("By Crom!" ↪180 Proof) — 180 Proof
I wasn't denigrating quantum scientists. They're doing the best they can with the counter-intuitive feedback they get from sub-atomic experiments. Since such concepts as "Superposition" and "Wave-Particle Duality" don't make sense to our classically-trained brains, the pioneers of Weird Science were forced to resort to conventional physical metaphors, that made them seem somewhat less meta-physical, but still quite strange. In my thesis, I encapsulate those paradoxical dualities in the coined term "BothAnd", as illustrated in the Yin-Yang symbol.A small defensive word in favor of the scientist... Quantum mechanics is the same small hard ball approach. — Hillary
I don't know if the wavefunction "constitutes space", but it potentially fills all of space, until forced to "collapse" to a specific location. Even the math of Schrodinger's Equation is weird, in that it requires "imaginary numbers, which is not something that has a physical meaning". (ibid) Since the physical foundation of our reality can only be described in mathematical terms, it fits neatly into my thesis that everything in the world is a form of Information (the potential to enform, both physically and mentally). :smile:It could even be argued that the wavefunction constitutes space. It's the notion of the particle being a point that is problematic. — Hillary
The "correct" answer to that question depends on how you look at it. Just as Einstein was forced by the facts to conclude that macro (space-time) reality is relative, it now seems that quantum reality is also relative to the observer. If you look within, your world-model is integral with your-self, but it you look without, it seems independent of your mind. :nerd:So, if mind is part of matter, can there even be a reality independent of mind? — Hillary
That may be why humans have always imagined that there must be something better, something more, than this "vale of tears". Our advanced animal brains are not limited to the here & now, but can create alternative possible worlds, such as Plato's Ideal, and the Christian Heaven, or somewhat more mundane, a Garden of Eden, where grass-fed lions lay-down with their fellow vegetarian lambs. :joke:In most films on the simulation theory the real is depicted as less glamorous, more drab than the simulation itself. — Agent Smith
That may be why humans have always imagined that there must be something better, something more, than this "vale of tears". Our advanced animal brains are not limited to the here & now, but can create alternative possible worlds, such as Plato's Ideal, and the Christian Heaven, or somewhat more mundane, a Garden of Eden, where grass-fed lions lay-down with their fellow vegetarian lambs. — Gnomon
That may be why humans have always imagined that there must be something better, something more, than this "vale of tears". Our advanced animal brains are not limited to the here & now, but can create alternative possible worlds, such as Plato's Ideal, and the Christian Heaven, or somewhat more mundane, a Garden of Eden, where grass-fed lions lay-down with their fellow vegetarian lambs — Gnomon
I don't know if the wavefunction "constitutes space", but it potentially fills all of space — Gnomon
If life gives ya lemons, make lemonade! — Agent Smith
That's the best philosophy I have encountered! — Hillary
Translating words into deeds, that's the hard part — Agent Smith
But not the best part. Though fresh lemonata with crushed ice and pure honey or ahorn syrup is pretty good. Limoncello after it, and some pure high quality opium as dessert... — Hillary
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.