Hey Chris, be aware that people living in very secure conditions often don't care about the risks others are incurring. So take a guy like Streetlight. He lives in Australia. The Ukrainian resistance to Russia may mean a number of things to him, e.g.: 1) high oil prices; and 2) a risk of nuclear war. So from his very secure viewpoint, the Ukrainian resistance is a bad thing, because it may endanger his own security. And Sweden's joining NATO would also be bad for him, for the same reasons.
From his POV, if only those damn Europeans could stop their ridiculous fighting, so that the security of Australians is not endangered and oil prices could go down, now that'd be nice. — Olivier5
Why do you think getting into a security alliance is important to be done now and not after Russia rebuilt its military capability? — Christoffer
If Ukraine had joined NATO earlier — frank
You can't seem to understand what's compared here. Bombings should be criticized, everything the US did should be criticized, but it's not comparable to multiple Russian troops systematically raping and executing civilians from village to village, town to town. — Christoffer
The difference here is the intention, what they actually do, systematically in Ukraine. — Christoffer
The answer was implied in my response;The question was why Finland wants to join NATO
I asked why Finland would want to join NATO if it had no credible threat
Again, you seem to be simply assuming some kind of threshold. Why is the number of children starving to death acceptable, but the number of children bombed not? — Isaac
So it seems to be a numbers game for you, yet lacking in actual numbers. — Isaac
Exactly what I've been arguing. The intention matters. So the mere fact that Russia have brutally invaded Ukraine is insufficient ground for belief that they have any intention of brutally invading Finland. — Isaac
Just as the fact that the US 'recklessly' (to use your judgement) invaded Iraq is insufficient ground for belief that they have any intention of 'recklessly' invading Finland. — Isaac
All we have by way of intention is that Russia intends to carry out a military response if Finland join NATO. So using intention as your guide, the one thing to avoid would be joining NATO. — Isaac
Sweden/Finland joining NATO might even have a positive influence on NATO. — jorndoe
To think that we and Finland would just bow down and kiss the US's ass is fucking moronic. — Christoffer
To think that we and Finland would just bow down and kiss the US's ass is fucking moronic. — Christoffer
The assumption from some here is apparently that, if you're not anglo-saxon, you have no agency whatsoever. — Olivier5
No offense, but that was a long time ago.
BTW, I really enjoyed the series Vikings, as well as the Last Kingdom, which is more pro-Brit while Vikings evidently focuses more on the Viking side of things. — Olivier5
We only have a few pagan traditions left, mostly without anyone knowing where they came from. — Christoffer
Well then, watch Vikings. I believe it's quite well done from a ethnographic standpoint. Of course it's entertainment and not a history book but there's a brave attempt at reconstructing a pagan, nordic worldview in that show. It's based on the sagas about Ragnar Lothbrok and his sons. — Olivier5
It seems they're not sending their best. — Streetlight
I am ambivalent about the idea of a pagan revival. The Nazis had this fascination for Siegfried and shit, and look where that led them. — Olivier5
The Nazis were uneducated fuckers who picked and chose whatever they felt was cool looking. — Christoffer
It doesn't offer any justification for the invasion Russia launched, but it's total hypocrisy. And dangerous. — Manuel
I can say that we are currently training Ukrainians in Poland in the use of anti-aircraft defence, and actually in the UK in the use of armoured vehicles
The Republic of Poland is rapidly becoming the critical member of the NATO Alliance in its increasing efforts to deter Russian military threats and counter Moscow’s attempts to subvert European democracy. … It is spending more money in terms of a percentage of GDP than other NATO countries. The Polish military has a serious modernization program underway that over time promises to make it a serious counterweight to the Russian Army. Poland is also the obvious place for NATO to base its defense of Europe. This is the primary reason why the U.S. has deployed heavy combat forces in that country and plans to significantly increase its presence in the next few years.
I don't write here with dual personalities, so notice what I say. I don't think Russia will destroy Finland. — ssu
People have a right to take steps to defend themselves. — Olivier5
. It still doesn't follow that Putin wants to "destroy Finland". — Apollodorus
Nietzsche was no idiot and he is basically at the root of Nazism. As an atheist, I think it is tempting to just throw off our Christian tradition, like he tried to do, now that we don't believe in gods anymore, but what do we replace it with? The cult of the leader? Some übermensch delirium?
Christianity had the advantage of protecting the poor and powerless, somewhat. I think that's why it was so popular. To 'come back' to pre-christian paganism would mean very little and would deny this advantage. We absolutely need to keep this aspect of Christianity -- compassion -- as we move on to other creeds. — Olivier5
And does your "strategic thinking" entail planning to invade Russia because it might decide to "destroy Finland" in "50 years from now"?! :grin: — Apollodorus
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.