Being More Patient Doesn't Necessarily Mean Taking More Time

HardWorker

I've made quite a few threads here where I've discussed patience and I've talked about how being more patient might require taking more time to get something done. As some other posters have pointed out that's not always the case and in fact it can be the opposite. In my thread, "There Are No Shortcuts To Excellence" I talk about working 40 hours a week instead of 20 hours a week. Another poster pointed out that it would take more patience to work 40 hours a week as opposed to 20 even though you would be making more money sooner and thus you would reach your goal of making an x amount of money sooner. Why would it take more patience? Because its harder to work 40 hours a week than just 20 hours and you've got to deal with the stress of working a 40 hour week instead of just a 20 hour week, so that makes sense.

I once visited a Tae Kwon Do school that had this special program called the Black Belt Club. If you were a student at the school you could choose if you wanted to be a member of the Black Belt Club. The way it worked is that if you were in the Black Belt Club you would have more Tae Kwon Do classes per week than a student who was not in the club and your classes would also be longer than those who were not in the club. The idea is that by training more often per week and for training longer time periods with your longer classes you would earn a black belt sooner than a student who was not in the club. By training more you would develop the skills that are required for a black belt sooner than a regular student who was not in the club and thus you would earn a black belt sooner than a student who was not in the club. Now being in the Black Belt Club didn't mean you were impatient, on the contrary it could be said that being in the club requires more patience since you have to deal with the stress and hard work of training more often and for longer time periods but you do develop the skills necessary for a black belt sooner than students who aren't in the club thus you earn a black belt sooner than students who aren't in the club. So therefore, getting something done sooner doesn't mean you're less patient, on the contrary it can mean you're more patient.

In short, sooner does not mean impatient and taking longer does not mean more patient.

Agent Smith

When I try to type faster, I make more errors.

Moral of the story: Don't hurry people. They'll make (more) mistakes.

Hence, patience is a virtue.

:chin:

HardWorker

↪Agent Smith

When I try to type faster, I make more errors.

If you try to type faster than you're able to of course you're going to make errors and you will have to go back and correct them which will take more time, so it will take longer to type what you're typing if you try to type faster than you're able to but that's not the point.

Moral of the story: Don't hurry people. They'll make (more) mistakes.

I never said anything about anybody hurrying anybody else. The Tae Kwon Do school that I mentioned in my original post that had the Black Belt Club, you didn't have to be in the club if you didn't want to. Not all students were in the club. It would be up to you as a student if you wanted to be in the club or not so nobody was hurrying anybody.

Hence, patience is a virtue.

I never said it wasn't but that's not the point.

You're missing the point of my post.

Agent Smith

↪HardWorker

I see. My post was meant as a general comment on the OP's main point (patience). I thought it might be of some use to you in your quest; sometimes clues pop up in random and unexpected places, monsieur! Perhaps this isn't one of those times. Apologies.

Regarding the OP, let me see if I can make a contribution, I'd say patience, its definition, has a clear (enough) temporal specification viz. waiting which is synonymous with prolongation of duration.

You want to take that conventional meaning and turn it on its head as it were. This is a very common tactic employed by sages, its a trademark of Lao Tzu (Taoism): THIS IS NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE! I hope that was helpful in some way.

Possibility

So therefore, getting something done sooner doesn't mean you're less patient, on the contrary it can mean you're more patient.

In short, sooner does not mean impatient and taking longer does not mean more patient. — HardWorker

The point was that the evaluation of an act is not just about time, but about the distribution of effort and attention in relation to time. Patience is simply about recognising the requirement of all three in accomplishing any task. Impatience is when at least one of these is not taken into account in the prediction.

Someone trying to thread a needle is going to get impatient if they’re not paying enough attention to the task to get it done. Someone who intends to gain a black belt in tae kwon do in a set amount of time just by showing up to lessons, without putting in the effort or listening to their instructor, is going to get impatient when he can’t demonstrate progress.

I'd say patience, its definition, has a clear (enough) temporal specification viz. waiting which is synonymous with prolongation of duration. — Agent Smith

Someone who is not carrying out the task themselves, but relying on someone else, is unable to control how this person distributes their effort and attention over time. When more of our own attention and effort is allocated to a task, we expect it to happen sooner. Patience in this instance is recognising that allocating more of our own effort or attention to someone else’s task has no bearing on the time it takes them. It’s about their attention and their effort - which we detract from the task at hand when we ask: ‘Are we there yet?’ ‘What’s taking so long?’

Agent Smith

Someone who is not carrying out the task themselves, but relying on someone else, is unable to control how this person distributes their effort and attention over time. When more of our own attention and effort is allocated to a task, we expect it to happen sooner. Patience in this instance is recognising that allocating more of our own effort or attention to someone else’s task has no bearing on the time it takes them. It’s about their attention and their effort - which we detract from the task at hand when we ask: ‘Are we there yet?’ ‘What’s taking so long?’ — Possibility

Yeah, a gap in the causal chain!

Possibility

Yeah, a gap in the causal chain! — Agent Smith

Or a misunderstanding of causal relations...

Agent Smith

Or a misunderstanding of causal relations... — Possibility

:ok:

Cuthbert

So therefore, getting something done sooner doesn't mean you're less patient, on the contrary it can mean you're more patient — HardWorker

Your story reminds me of the conversation about becoming a surgeon -

Person: I want to be a surgeon but I think I'm too old to start. I'm 25.
Friend: Well, you still have time.
Person: But it takes eight years. By the time I've done the training I'll be 33!
Friend: True. And if you don't train to be a surgeon, how old will you be then?

HardWorker

↪Cuthbert

Person: I want to be a surgeon but I think I'm too old to start. I'm 25.
Friend: Well, you still have time.
Person: But it takes eight years. By the time I've done the training I'll be 33!
Friend: True. And if you don't train to be a surgeon, how old will you be then?

Maybe if they put in extra hours every week in their training they'll get it done in less then 8 years.

javi2541997

Maybe if they put in extra hours every week in their training they'll get it done in less then 8 years. — HardWorker

It took you five months to answer @Cuthbert :eyes: you are a real patient person indeed.

HardWorker

↪javi2541997

It took you five months to answer @Cuthbert :eyes: you are a real patient person indeed.

I've just been occupied with other stuff so I haven't been back to the forum for awhile.

Being More Patient Doesn't Necessarily Mean Taking More Time

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