Jesus didn't preach asceticism and indifference — Bitter Crank
This could not be more false. Any passing glance at his sayings in the NT or the consensus of scholars who associate him with Jewish ascetic movements is enough to rubbish such a suggestion. — Thorongil
What do you take to be the core of Jesus' teachings? Please site a verse or two to support your view. — Bitter Crank
Say something about Jesus and somebody will disagree--maybe for good reasons, maybe not.
What do you take to be the core of Jesus' teachings? Please site a verse or two to support your view. — Bitter Crank
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. — Matthew 5:38–5:39 KJV
Anyways... The End. — schopenhauer1
What do you take to be the core of Jesus' teachings? Please site a verse or two to support your view. — Bitter Crank
but I think a case can be made that he didn't require good people to be ascetics — Bitter Crank
You've subtly shifted your claim here. — Thorongil
What Jesus did definitely preach is the coming Kingdom of God. — Bitter Crank
Column 2 (1)[... The Hea]vens and the earth will obey His Messiah, (2) [... and all th]at is in them. He will not turn aside from the Commandments of the Holy Ones. (3) Take strength in His service, (you) who seek the Lord. (4) Shall you not find the Lord in this, all you who wait patiently in your hearts? (5) For the Lord will visit the Pious Ones (Hassidim) and the Righteous (Zaddikim) will He call by name. (6) Over the Meek will His Spirit hover, and the Faithful will He restore by His power. (7) He shall glorify the Pious Ones (Hassidim) on the Throne of the Eternal Kingdom. (8) He shall release the captives, make the blind see, raise up the do[wntrodden.] (9) For[ev]er will I cling [to Him ...], and in His Piety (Hesed, also ‘Grace’), (10) and [His] Goo[dness...] of Holiness will not delay ...(11) And as for the wonders that are not the work of the Lord, when He ... (12) then He will heal the sick, resurrect the dead, and to the Meek announce glad tidings. (13)... He will lead the [Holly Ones; He will shepherd [th]em; He will do (14)...and all of it... Fragment l Column 3 (1) and the Law will be pursued. I will free them ... (2) Among men the fathers are honored above the sons ...(3)I will sing (?)the blessing of the Lord with his favor...(4) The 1[an]d went into exile (possibly, ‘rejoiced) every-wh[ere...] (5) And all Israel in exil[e (possibly ‘rejoicing’) ...] (6) ... (7) ...
Fragment 2
(1) ... their inheritan[ce...] (2) from him ...
Fragment 3 Column 1 (4) ... he will not serve these people (5) ... strength () ... they will be great Fragment 3 Column 2 (1) And... (3) And ... (5) And ... (6) And which ... (7) They gathered the noble[s...] (8) And the eastern parts of the heavens ... (9) [And] to all yo[ur] fathers ... Fragment 4 (5) ... they will shine (6)... a man (7) ... Jacob (8)... and all of His Holy implements (9)... and all her anointed ones (10)... the Lord will speak... (11) the Lord in [his] might (12)... the eyes of Fragment 5 (1)... they [will] see all... (2) and everything in it... (3) and all the fountains of water, and the canals... (4) and those who make... for the sons of Ad[am...] (5) among these curs[ed ones.] And what ...(6) the soothsayers of my people ... (7) for you ... the Lord ... (8) and He opened...v — Fragment 1 in Dead Sea Scrolls translation by Robert Eisenman
(8) He shall release the captives, make the blind see, raise up the downtrodden. — Fragment 1 in Dead Sea Scrolls translation by Robert Eisenman
What Jesus did definitely preach is the coming Kingdom of God. — Bitter Crank
How do you interpret that? As a political revolution and an overthrowing of the establishment? As an 'end of the world' cataclysm? — Wayfarer
8) He shall release the captives, make the blind see, raise up the do[wntrodden.] — Fragment 1 in Dead Sea Scrolls translation by Robert Eisenman
More a revolution and an overthrowing of the establishment than a cataclysmic end of the world: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places (Ephesians 6:12). — Bitter Crank
Such verses can be interpreted 'esoterically', i.e. the 'captives' are captives 'to the flesh'. and are therefore 'blind', i.e. not seeing 'the Kingdom', and are downtrodden on that account. — Wayfarer
Reminiscent of Isaiah 61, The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners. — Bitter Crank
And the fact that the early Church didn't start solidifying it's views until a few hundred years after Jesus seems just about parallel to how the earliest texts in the OT (Genesis, Job etc) are symbolical myth, and not direct historical accounts. So in other words, both religions, Judaism and Christianity, are not generated historistically (yay I made a word). — Noble Dust
others replaced by only El to become possibly Elohim (god but curiously plural)- all the gods into one universally relevant one. — schopenhauer1
But that doesn't exclude the possibility of it existing physically — Noble Dust
It can be either -- the Kingdom of God is within you, or the Kingdom of God is breaking into this world. — Bitter Crank
Fascinating. — Noble Dust
Like, El Shaddai? — Bitter Crank
and that means grappling with the Judaism of his time, and how he fit into it, not how later interpreters wanted you to see him.. Remember, all the Gospels were written AFTER Paul's writings..and thus reinterpretation. — schopenhauer1
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