Wisdom, madness and Diogenes masturbating en publique

Hillary

We can read the following about Diogenes :

"Diogenes maintained that all the artificial growths of society were incompatible with happiness and that morality implies a return to the simplicity of nature. So great was his austerity and simplicity that the Stoics would later claim him to be a wise man or "sophos" "

Dear D seemed a wise man indeed, and even Alexander the Great was eager to meet him. When Alexander asked him what he wished for (he could choose from his material wealth anything he liked) he asked Alexander politely to step aside as he blocked the Sun shining on him. Alexander said that if he was someone else he would like to be Diogenes. To which Diogenes replied that if he was someone else, he'd like to be Diogenes.

Diogenes is known to have looked for a honest man in Athens, walking around in broad daylight with a lantern! His house was a broken amphora, and his only possesions were a bowl to eat from, old dirty nickers, and a dusty cloth for clothes. He masturbated en publique, comparing it with rubbing your stomach to relieve hunger... Once he even gave his bowl away to a poor kid he saw eating from a piece of bread. Dunno if he did the same with his smelly undercloth (upper pants, in his case).

Behold the Diogenes syndrome:

"Diogenes syndrome is a disorder characterized by self-neglect, domestic squalor, apathy, compulsive hoarding of garbage and more importantly lack of shame. The syndrome does not refer to the intelligence or the philosophies of Diogenes but rather refers to the way Diogenes lived."

Was Diogenes mad as well as wise? Are these two classifications, these two labels interchangeable? It seems the case for Diogenes, though his love for the natural being seems wise. Is the modern Diogenes the tramp, wandering fancy free with pussins and flies zooming around his head? I can't help it that @Agent Smith springs to mind...

universeness

Hopefully today, at least here in Scotland, Diogenes would get some assistance from the welfare state, and the NHS. Hopefully, he would be assessed by mental health professionals and receive the medication he needs. Consultations with a psychiatrist would also be on offer.
Charities and foodbanks should not be needed and only exist because of economic imbalance.
This must be stopped. In my socialist/humanist future, Diogenes would thrive.
Alexander would probably be serving life in a high-security jail.
Be careful about any insults (with humorous intent) you make towards @Agent Smith. If he is true to his character, he can send one of his many matrix replicants to take possession of your wife and then goodness knows what he as she, might do to you! :scream:

Agent Smith

Hemispatial Neglect.

Diogenes Paradox:

If you neglect one side of your body, you have (contralateral) brain damage!

If you neglect both sides of your body à la Diogenes, your brain is perfectly fine! You're in fact considered a sage.

:chin:

Agent Smith

↪universeness

:grin:

Hillary

Alexander would probably be serving life in a high-security jail.
Be careful about any insults (with humorous intent) you make towards Agent Smith. If he is true to his character, he can send one of his many matrix replicants to take possession of your wife and then goodness knows what he as she, might do to you! :scream: — universeness

So it was actually Alexander being mad? I don't think Diogenes needed mental health care actually! And he certainly would have refused.

Agent Smith, in my humble opinion, is a wise person. With a touch of madness. :grin:

Agent Smith

I'm particularly fascinated by how dogs became a mascot for Cynicism.

Dogs are, as per Cynics (dogs)

1. Indifferent to customs, norms, laws (shit & pee anywhere, eat anything, sex in the open, and so on)

2. Discerning (can instantly tell friend from foe, a skill that's vital to survival)

That's all I can recall. Damn, I just read the Wiki page what? about 5 minutes ago.

He was highly critical of Plato and his ways (abstractions). I'm most intrigued by how Plato responded by calling Diogenes "Socrates gone mad!" :chin: I like this format. So, is Nicolai A. Vasiliev (paraconsistent logic) Aristotle/Gottlob Frege (classical logic) gone mad? It's a novel way to look at philosophy and philosophers!

Cuthbert

Diogenes syndrome is a disorder characterized by self-neglect, domestic squalor, apathy, compulsive hoarding of garbage and more importantly lack of shame — Hillary

The Diogenes Plan is characterised by freedom from personal vanity, simplicity in home arrangements, refusal to indulge in displays of emotion, commitment to recycling and saving energy and most importantly indifference to being mocked for any of the above.

Possibility

I think Diogenes was wise, although considered ‘mad’ in his behaviour by society’s standards. He was fool, prophet and sage, and made of his life a critique of social convention. The idea that ‘you can’t do that’ is countered in almost every act attributed to Diogenes. Clearly we can do it, which leads us to ask why our conventions exclude or isolate certain behaviours in certain situations, and demand certain behaviours in others. What is it that offends or disturbs us about certain acts that we must render them unacceptable in public? What are we trying to hide, ignore or deny about ourselves? Diogenes’ behaviour was designed to confront us with a little brutal honesty about our humanity.

But, as usual, we avoid this level of self-reflection by calling him ‘mad’ or ‘dog’. Not really human. It’s a coping mechanism. That way, we can continue pretending that our particular brand of ‘civilised humanity’ is the only way to be, and that the world and people are ordered and predictable.

It seems we’re a little slow on the uptake...

universeness

If you neglect both sides of your body à la Diogenes, your brain is perfectly fine! You're in fact considered a sage. — Agent Smith

What do you think of the very old story about the King who was much loved by his subjects?
An enemy poisoned the main water well the subjects drank from and they all went mad after they drank the water.
The people now saw their King in a new light. They hated him, overthrew him, and they kicked him out of the city.
In the dead of night, the deposed King reached the poisoned water well and drank deeply.
The next day, the people celebrated the return of their beloved King.
Misery loves company eh!

universeness

↪Agent Smith

↪universeness :grin: — Agent Smith

:lol: All who offend thee may perish! Don't f*** with the replicants, that's what I say!

universeness

So it was actually Alexander being mad? — Hillary

Alexander the b****** was not mad but he was an evil butcher. He went mad in the end, I think, as most 'conquerers' do.

I don't think Diogenes needed mental health care actually! And he certainly would have refused. — Hillary

Most people in the madhouse are very definite about just how sane they are.
Just like the alcoholic that 'can handle it,' and knows what they are doing.
I remember a wee Spanish fella who said to me.
'If crazies and alkies and junkies etc no want no help then we no give them no help!
They all die quicker, problem solved!'

Suffice to say, I disagreed with him. :smile:

universeness

That way, we can continue pretending that our particular brand of ‘civilised humanity’ is the only way to be, and that the world and people are ordered and predictable. — Possibility

But our particular brand of what is considered 'civilised behaviour,' changes from village to village all the way to nation to nation. We don't have the same guidelines of civility as the ancient Sumerians or the more recent Victorians. I am not ready to advocate for men and women to masturbate, if they choose to, in public, on the buses and trains, on their way to the office, are you?

Agent Smith

What do you think of the very old story about the King who was much loved by his subjects?
An enemy poisoned the main water well the subjects drank from and they all went mad after they drank the water.
The people now saw their King in a new light. They hated him, overthrew him, and they kicked him out of the city.
In the dead of night, the deposed King reached the poisoned water well and drank deeply.
The next day, the people celebrated the return of their beloved King.
Misery loves company eh! — universeness

I didn't get it!

:sad:

Agent Smith

All who offend thee may perish! Don't f*** with the replicants, that's what I say! — universeness

:grin:

universeness

I didn't get it! — Agent Smith

It speaks to the situation that many people face. If the world around you goes mad. Can you maintain your own sanity and still fight for what you believe is a better future for all or do you just take the more comfortable route and join the rest of the mad b*******!
rampant theism/autocracies/aristocracies/plutocracies/ cults of celebrity/cults of personality/ nefarious individuals can be very very hard to combat. They can f*** you up and those you love. They can make you suffer in ways we can hardly imagine. Is it not much easier to drink their poison, join them and gain from those they abuse. Or will you fight????

Wittgenstein

universeness

↪Wittgenstein

:scream:

Agent Smith

↪universeness

Agent Smith

Agent Smith, in my humble opinion, is a wise person — Hillary

:snicker: :snicker:

universeness

↪Agent Smith

Horror films that dramatise the supernatural have little impact on me. I always imagine the cameraman and the makeup artist. 'We need more red splurges on his face' or 'perhaps if we got some butcher meat and stuck it to his face, he would look scarier,' :rofl:
In the second clip, yeah, shit happens! The human race needs to keep struggling for survival. Evolution through natural selection has not stopped.

I am reminded of a scene from Carl Sagan's film Contact. I searched for it on youtube but to no avail.
Ellie as a child, can't get to the heart pills in time to save her father. The usual moronic local priest speaks to her at the funeral of her father and he tries to comfort her by suggesting that she pray to god and receive its solace. She utters the brilliant words 'should have kept some pills in the downstairs kitchen.'
Ain't it the truth! Well done Carl! Good writing!

Agent Smith

↪universeness

C'est la vie?! Shit happens?! :chin:

Most interesting! — Ms. Marple

You're on the right track! Keep going!

Hillary

Horror films that dramatise the supernatural have little impact on me — universeness

I have the same experience with scifi movies promoting weird fantasies of a faraway future in which super intelligent cuboids fly silently over an Earth manipulated to fit the cube... :lol:

Hillary

I am reminded of a scene from Carl Sagan's film Contact. I searched for it on youtube but to no avail.
Ellie as a child, can't get to the heart pills in time to save her father. The usual moronic local priest speaks to her at the funeral of her father and he tries to comfort her by suggesting that she pray to god and receive its solace. She utters the brilliant words 'should have kept some pills in the downstairs kitchen.'
Ain't it the truth! Well done Carl! Good writing! — universeness

Yeah, Jody Foster, the typical female atheist! The film has made a critical mistake...

universeness

You're on the right track! Keep going — Agent Smith

:up: Don't lose heart, keep faith in the human race!!!

universeness

Yeah, Jody Foster, the typical female atheist! The film has made a critical mistake.. — Hillary

To err is human, to forgive is ........... also human!

Agent Smith

Don't lose heart, keep faith in the human race!!! — universeness

Kali Yuga! :chin:

Hillary

To err is human, to forgive is ........... also human! — universeness

Yes, but in the meantime it showed scientific woowoo. Which is forgivable...

Hillary

She utters the brilliant words 'should have kept some pills in the downstairs kitchen.'
Ain't it the truth! Well done Carl! Good writing! — universeness

And behold, the alien beings show themselves in the shape of daddy. A scary type with white hair who blows up the capsule is introduced to warn us against the irrationality of anti-science. Dangerous! They terrorize! Why shouldn't gods be able to offer solace? But the worst of all, Sagan didn't learn basic science which he so worships! Again, like Dawkins, a scientist who is a bad physicist. Trying to compensate by being atheist! :starstruck:

universeness

Kali Yuga! :chin: — Agent Smith

Had to google that one!

From Wikipedia:
"The Kali Yuga, in Hinduism, is the fourth and worst of the four yugas (world ages) in a Yuga Cycle, preceded by Dvapara Yuga and followed by the next cycle's Krita (Satya) Yuga. It is believed to be the present age, which is full of conflict and sin."

Hinduism! The biggest of the polytheistic movements. More fairy story BS to me!
Of no more value than the Viking pantheon headed by Odin or the Greek pantheon headed by Zeus.
Stories for the fearties and those who need the woo woo in their lives.
Bread and butter people, manna from the nonexistent heaven for the SCIgodians to thrive upon!

universeness

And behold, the alien beings show themselves in the shape of daddy. A scary type with white hair who blows up the capsule is introduced to warn us against the irrationality of anti-science. Dangerous! They terrorize! Why shouldn't gods be able to offer solace? But the worst of all, Sagan didn't learn basic science which he so worships! Again, like Dawkins, a scientist who is a bad physicist. Trying to compensate by being atheist! — Hillary

Sounds like you are happy to drink deeply from the poisoned well and become exactly like the SCIgodians! That intro offer will always be there, just for you!

Hillary

Stories for the fearties and those who need the woo woo in their lives. — universeness

"World Population by Religion

About 85% of the world's people identify with a religion."

Which means: woowoo accepted!

Wisdom, madness and Diogenes masturbating en publique

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