Before AI takes blue collar jobs away from the people, we need a class of people who should not concern themselves with politics, science and philosophy. They should be trained to operate as mindless robotic cogs in the big industrial wheel. They need to be enslaved so the elite can have all the time to advance the frontier of knowledge and art. — Wittgenstein

People are not born equal. — Wittgenstein

But they are equal. They are all endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. Among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. To secure these rights, Governments are instituted, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. — T Clark

But they are equal. They are all endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. Among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — T Clark

I would characterize Freddy Zarathustra as an advocate of Cultural Self-Mastery and not a defender of Civilizational Slavery... — 180 Proof

Your view looks like special pleading. — Banno

Life is fountain of joy; but where the rabble also gather to drink, all wells are poisoned. — Also Sprach Freddy Z

...and yet time and again it is read as encourage the aristocratic nonsense of the OP. Time and again this is how it is read. Your view looks like special pleading. — Banno

Special pleasing my ass — Joshs

and yet time and again it is read as encourage the aristocratic nonsense of the OP. Time and again this is how it is read. Your view looks like special pleading. — Banno

Name a Nietzsche scholar who reads it this way. — frank

The point being it is read this way. See the OP. — Banno

And that is why your posts are of so little value. Look at the name of the thread. — Banno

IS that the best folk can do in the face of autocracy? Quoting American mythology? — Banno

...all endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. Among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — T Clark

...keep the natural hierarchy in place to maintain the highest standard of art, philosophy, science in society and let everyone who is capable prove his worth. — Wittgenstein

The elite class of society... enjoy greater rights and be allowed to get around the law as the culture is in greater need of them. — Wittgenstein

The elite artists should fashion the taste of art in society and the common people should not be able to dictate the direction of art to the artist. — Wittgenstein

The elite class of society should enjoy greater rights and be allowed to get around the law as the culture is in greater need of them. A nation is defined and distinguished from others by its culture. — Wittgenstein

...we need a class of people who should not concern themselves with politics, science and philosophy. They should be trained to operate as mindless robotic cogs in the big industrial wheel. — Wittgenstein

I would characterize Freddy Zarathustra as an advocate of Cultural (i.e. psychological-intellectual-artistic) Self-Mastery and not a defender of Civilizational (i.e. political economic) Slavery on the basis of teaching of Übermenschen bred (cultivated) to, as second nature, joyfully affirm (overcome the challenge of) the Eternal Recurrence of the Same (Ja-sagen "amor fati") contra decadent resentment (i.e. Nein-sagen "spirit of gravity") – Dionysius versus The Crucified :fire:

Special pleasing my ass. You really need to improve the quality of the Nietzsche interpreters you read. I have a shelf full of brilliant Nietzsche scholarship and none of it spouts the crap you’re referring to.

Life is fountain of joy; but where the rabble also gather to drink, all wells are poisoned. — 180 Proof

A few scholars have nevertheless dared to read Nietzsche as he ought to be read and l can drop their names in this thread but you will dismiss their interpretation..... — Wittgenstein

Diogenes arrived in Athens with a slave named Manes who escaped from him shortly thereafter. With characteristic humor, Diogenes dismissed his ill fortune by saying, "If Manes can live without Diogenes, why not Diogenes without Manes?"

According to a story which seems to have originated with Menippus of Gadara, Diogenes was captured by pirates while on voyage to Aegina and sold as a slave in Crete to a Corinthian named Xeniades. Being asked his trade, he replied that he knew no trade but that of governing men, and that he wished to be sold to a man who needed a master. — Wikipedia

If we should want to have a charitable look at the argument, maybe we should let the man speak for himself, since he did happen to make this exact argument in the greek state which boils down to this:

1. Life, suffering etc, can ultimately only be justified through art.
2. Slavery is necessary to enable a few to focus on creating said art.

"In order that there may be a broad, deep, and fruitful soil for the development of art, the enormous majority must, in the service of a minority be slavishly subjected to life’s struggle, to a greater degree than their own wants necessitate. At their cost, through the surplus of their labor, that privileged class is to be relieved from the struggle for existence, in order to create and to
satisfy a new world of want."

Since 1) is essentially a value-judgement one maybe could just say that one doesn't care about art or high culture, and the rest of the argument looses its potency.

2) is more of a statement of fact that one could maybe discredit (or credit) on empirical grounds. Essentially he saying that 1) you need specialisation to be able to create good art 2) which requires that some are relieved from the daily struggle for existence 3) which in turn requires that a part of the population produces more/is forced to produce more than it needs for itself.

Maybe this could be true in ancient times, like Greece, but certainly this isn't true anymore in fossil-fueled post-industrialised societies. Because of the amount of energy per capita we have access to, we essentially have all the energy slaves we want, Energy can be translated directly into work, which basically could free up almost everybody to produce art if we wanted to.

2. I think you have missed the point. — Wittgenstein