Back in the day, folks said the same about Abolition ... and desegregation ... and mixed-raced marriage ... Actuarial inevitability, sir.Yea, that'snotgoing to happen. — frank
Prenatal homicide (e.g. mother's physical or mental health; severe / unviable birth defects; poverty, etc) ain't infanticide. Ergo no unwanted / unloved newborns. Each woman (& her doctor) knows best. Anyway, soon enough, actuarial progress over retrograde conservatism.Third trimester is a baby.
Yea, that's not going to happen.
— frank
Back in the day, folks said the same about Abolition ... and desegregation ... and mixed-raced marriage ... Actuarial inevitability, sir. — 180 Proof
Prenatal homicide (e.g. health of the mother, severe / unviable birth defects, poverty, etc), ain't infanticide. Ergo no unwanted / unloved newborns. Each woman knows best. Actuarial progress over retrograde conservatism. — 180 Proof
In the following US States, etc, abortion without limits (e.g. third trimester) is currently legal by statute in the following states:Third trimester istoo late. — frank
the more reason 3rd Tri abortions are the most important kind to protect. — Streetlight
extremist — 180 Proof
Not to worry, Smith. If you're not a fertile, post-pubescent female, then it's very unlkiely you will ever have to decide to terminate your pregnancy. :eyes: — 180 Proof
That’s a good point. Imagine if people could kill their children after they were born, and then claim it was their right to choose. Maybe there are options for 3rd trimester abortions that preserve the child’s life. In some ways, it isn’t just a “right” to choose when it involves another life. The question, of course, is when it becomes another life, and to me, it certainly isn’t during natural birth. Under this logic, one could also argue a fetus/baby is also a slave if the government rules that the mother can choose a procedure design to take their life.That doesn't, however, solve the ethical problem does it
I don't knoww what "ethical problem" you're alluding to? — 180 Proof
Whatever you eat must be "killed" either before or during eating it. "Ethical problem"? :roll: — 180 Proof
Maybe there are options for 3rd trimester abortions that preserve the child’s life.
...
Like put it in a test tube or something and let it grow the rest of the way organically. — Paulm12
What do you mean, "live outside the womb"? Newborns cannot live out side the womb for long on their own. They are still very much dependent on their mother for their survival. If the umbilical cord was severed inside the womb the fetus would survive about as long as if it were outside the womb and abandoned by it's mother. So why do we consider it murder if a mother abandons her newborn in a dumpster after being born?What we do is declare that some time before the 20th week when the AC membrane in the lungs is too thick to function, the thingy is not a person. Somewhere around 25 weeks the membrane will work and the thingy can live outside the womb. — frank
So the victims of school shootings were not people?I would say the two extremes are a newly fertilised egg (not a person) and a healthy adult (a person). A 24 week old foetus and someone in a vegetative state might be somewhere in between. — Michael
Yet we do force our opinion upon others by having laws that put you in jail if you kill people.In some legal respects, a corporation is a person. What would need defining is: individual human person., but the fundamental problem is that it's a fuzzy concept - agreement on some specific set of traits would be virtually impossible. For example, I'd argue that a zygote clearly isn't an individual human person, because a zygote is a cell that can produce more than one person (monozyogtic twins, triplets, quadrupelets...), whereas many Christians disagree (a zygote has a soul; if it divides - God tosses in another soul...). So...it seems to me, it's all a matter of opinion, and it's inappropriate to force your opinion upon others. — Relativist
For vegans, yes. They are fine with killing plants for food, but not pigs, chickens and cows because they point to suffering, not necessarily personhood, as the reason to not kill some organism.Whatever you eat must be "killed" either before or during eating it. "Ethical problem"? — 180 Proof
What do you mean, "live outside the womb"? — Harry Hindu
How is that any different than what I said? If the preemie baby outside the womb still requires care to survive, how is that any different than the care they receive inside the womb?I think a 24 week infant has about a 7% chance of survival even with high tech care. At 20 weeks, there's really no chance. — frank
So the victims of school shootings were not people? — Harry Hindu
To even say that there are two extremes means that there must be a distinction between them, or else the extremes aren't extremes at all. — Harry Hindu
So the victims of school shootings were not people?
— Harry Hindu
No, how did you some to that conclusion? — Michael
You defined a person as a "healthy adult". Does this also mean that an adult with cancer is not a person?I would say the two extremes are a newly fertilised egg (not a person) and a healthy adult (a person). A 24 week old foetus and someone in a vegetative state might be somewhere in between. — Michael
You're repeating yourself. What are those differences?Yes, there's a difference between a fertilised egg and a healthy adult. — Michael
You defined a person as a "healthy adult". — Harry Hindu
You didn't say it was an example until now. Have any other examples? And after you give those examples, provide the traits that they share that qualifies them as a person.No I didn't. I offered a healthy adult as an example of a person. — Michael
You're repeating yourself. What are those differences? — Harry Hindu
Okay. Now we're moving the conversation forward!There are many differences; a healthy adult has lungs and a fertilised egg doesn't, a fertilised egg is about 100 microns in diameter and a healthy adult is quite a lot larger. — Michael
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