Capitalism on the other hand, cannot be understood apart from issues of production: of who and what is it that stuff is produced for. It is precisely because capitalism has to do with production (and not just exchange), that capitalism cannot be understood apart from changes in labour, in how labourers go about producing things, along with the conditions under which they labour. — Streetlight
The birth of 'the individual' follows quite nicely from the birth of generalized market-society. It is no surprise that liberalism - whose unit of analysis is precisely the individual, upon whom rights and obligation accrue (and property rights above all!) - is born exactly at the end of feudalism at the point at which markets become ascendant. — Streetlight
Many of us forget that our values and sense of self are a product of this ideology. — Tom Storm
Capitalism on the other hand, cannot be understood apart from issues of production: of who and what is it that stuff is produced for — Streetlight
The birth of 'the individual' follows quite nicely from the birth of generalized market-society. It is no surprise that liberalism - whose unit of analysis is precisely the individual, upon whom rights and obligation accrue (and property rights above all!) - is born exactly at the end of feudalism at the point at which markets become ascendant. — Streetlight
Streetlight's views seem outdated to me, like he's in the 19th Century or something. — frank
Even if IN the co-op it is now democratic and presumably fair, then it's interaction with the rest of the world isn't. — Benkei
And the other thing states do, more and more - I think maybe among the most consequential and least talked about - is to take on private risk. That is, private business risk is 'offshored' to state, who bear the burden when capitalist markets fuck up. The political economist Daniela Gabor has a really, really excellent and easy to read paper [PDF] on this topic. From the abstract: "The state risk-proofs development assets for institutional investors by taking on its balance sheet: (i) demand risks attached to commodified (social) infrastructure assets, (ii) political risk attached to policies that would threaten profits, such as nationalization, higher minimum wages and climate regulation, (iii) climate risks that may become part of regulatory frameworks; (iv) bond and currency markets risks that complicate investors’ exit". This 'taking on investment risk' tracks with the increase of financialization: states can function as lenders of last resort and prop up 'too-big-to-fail' institutions without which everything goes tits-up. — Streetlight
So, you don't really have any thoughts about the prevailing economic structure of your times? — frank
To the degree that capitalism ultimately makes a change at the level of production so that production becomes production-for-market, so long as this remains in place, I think what we have is still capitalism. A key notion here is that of market-dependency. If our social (and thus life) arrangements are dependent on markets to reproduce themselves, then, to put it bluntly, we're in trouble. It's simply a matter of imperatives and necessities: if even a democratically governed workplace will be subject to market imperatives, there's every chance that the planet-killing imperatives to further commidification and assestization will chug along regardless. — Streetlight
I think this is the first time in my posting on this philosophy forum that I have not successfully gotten the gist/understanding of the OP and further exposition on the OP on this thread. — L'éléphant
Edit 2: I think it exposes my lack of understanding of capitalism. This is the only sane explanation I can come up with. — L'éléphant
can't see how one can construct observations on economics without the perspectives and values from political discourse — Tom Storm
Anywhere where exchange is not impersonal: families, friends, strangers asking for directions in the street, co-workers passing pens to each other across the room. Market exchanges make up a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of our lives. It just so happens their influence is unimaginably deep. Their extensity does not match their intensity in society. Markets are parasitic on non-market exchange that happen everywhere, all the time, among everyone, at all levels. I'm not even charging you for this
— Streetlight
This is utter nonsense. — frank
there has been the ongoing activity of creating and animating private life and personal interests.
The omnipresent deterritorization has been compensated, balanced, and concealed by the all-embracing territorization.
— Number2018
Examples? — Tom Storm
The birth of 'the individual' follows quite nicely from the birth of generalized market-society. It is no surprise that liberalism - whose unit of analysis is precisely the individual, upon whom rights and obligation accrue (and property rights above all!) - is born exactly at the end of feudalism at the point at which markets become ascendant. — Streetlight
The guiding light I follow in thinking about this is the exchange/production distinction. To the degree that capitalism ultimately makes a change at the level of production so that production becomes production-for-market, so long as this remains in place, I think what we have is still capitalism. A key notion here is that of market-dependency. If our social (and thus life) arrangements are dependent on markets to reproduce themselves, then, to put it bluntly, we're in trouble. — Streetlight
While discussing the definition of capitalism, it's preferable in my opinion to put political debates to the side. First start with common terminology unless all you wanted was useless verbal spew. — frank
I'd hold the view that any discussion of capitalism, all the terms used and their relationships to each other and how they are understood systemically involve presuppositions. There is no free world of 'terminology' without perspectival relationships. — Tom Storm
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