I appreciate that this brings up the idea that Nazi Germany used segregationist and eugenicist United States as the model for its anti-Semitic ideal of an Aryan Germany.

I do think that there is a detrimental puritanical ideal of human society and behavior that permeates American society. I couldn't say if Germany suffers the same "super-ego" oppressive tendency.

However, I am reminded of an interesting element of American society provided by some writer I can't remember that observed the behavior of temperance rallies back in the early 20th century in my homeland of Appalachia. People would spend days railing against the evils of demon liquor and then afterwards would pick up moonshine from the local stil'.

So, the Puritanical streak in America was always something that made transgression more enjoyable.

I do think that the implicit fascist urge goes back to puritanism or the idea of purity. That there is some preordained pure position attainable by human beings. However, I also think that Americans at least - if not Germans - also tend to rebel against that. Which is why the shadow of fascism always hovers over America but never descends.

...we have the institutions of our world war enemy and every night in the news we hear about one horrible thing after another, and the reporters are asking what went wrong? Why are these terrible things happening? They are clueless about the fact that the US has imitated Germany in every significant way... — Athena

This is overstating the case. At least it seems that way from where I sit. Sure, there were at the time. and there still are Americans who sympathize with the idea of 'white racial superiority'. However, racist white Americans were/are prone to be anti anything non-white, whereas the Nazis targeted Jewish people.

The history behind how this all came to be is complex, for sure, but rest assured that there is always one deep seated mechanism at work:The systematic dehumanization of the 'enemy', whomever it may be. It's much easier to live with oneself when treating others cruelly or killing them outright, if those being treated as such have been previously devalued to the point of worthlessness in the mind(s) of the one(those) causing injury. That's the key core element common between Nazi Germany, the everyday affects/effects of the systemic racism inherent to The United States, and serial killers. We've not emulated Nazi Germany to the extent you suggest.

Babies and bathwater...

Americans were in awe of Germany's modes of manufacture and production, as well they ought have been. The Germans knew/know their shit when it came to such things. Given our post war economic boom was centered around manufacturing, it made good sense to emulate Germany in that regard, for they've always been very good at it. There were Nazi scientists brought on board in order to acquire their knowledge/expertise on rockets and nuclear dynamics as well.

All this being said, circling back to the OP...

American news outlets, today, are driven by profit. Profits come from advertising revenue. Advertisers want to reach as many potential customers as possible. Therefore, advertisers will pay the highest amount of revenue to the channels whose timeslots have the largest viewing population.

Shock sells.

In the seventies, the rock group KISS put on a constant theatrical production meant to shock conservative American values, particularly religious values and mores. The attention paid to them, much of which was by those avowed to somehow rid the country of their influence, made them global rockstars. The attention...

Shock sells.

Trump just said out loud what many Americans had been saying in private for a very long time. Sadly. Sadder still, is how utterly inept the opponents of such norms have been. Then there is the deep seated issue of who decides the narrative put into the public domain.

Point is that it's not so simple as to say that The United States is in trouble because we copied Germany.

The US adopted the German model of bureaucracy that shifts power from the individual to the state and the corporation. In 1958 the National Defense Education Act replace the US liberal education with the German model of education for technology for military and industrial purpose. That is to say, we have the institutions of our world war enemy and every night in the news we hear about one horrible thing after another, and the reporters are asking what went wrong? Why are these terrible things happening? They are clueless about the fact that the US has imitated Germany in every significant way so now we are what we fought against, and Trump is our Hitler complete with thugs, not because Trump is who he is, but because a large percentage of the citizens what such a man to rule over all of us. — Athena

That's indeed the red pill of the deepest red! Great thread. And we let our children still go to school? To turn them from colorful, playful little humans into brainwashed and programmed grey objectively thinking copies of the schemes the powers have in mind? Dear mother of gods...

However, racist white Americans were/are prone to be anti anything non-white, whereas the Nazis targeted Jewish people. — creativesoul

The nazis were against every other color. Hitler didn't shake the hand of Jesse Owens, and in nazi Germany there weren't a lot of black people living. The ideology still has considerable influence. Weren't 10 black people shot this week in the US?

Now we come to Richard M. Brickner M.D. description of Germany as paranoid. He defines this paranoia as excessive need to be superior and in control. And I want to mention here that with the change in education came a change in popular philosophers with Hegal and Nitsche replacing the Greek and Rome philosophers. Those philosophies may have remained harmless if it were not for the Prussian control of Germany and its superior bureaucracy and education for technology. What we call the German model of bureaucracy and the German model of education began as Prussian management of Germany. — Athena

I do need to point out that the correct names are Hegel and Nietzsche... Those philosophers were never very popular in the US actually. Nietzsche bore a deep mistrust of nationalist Germans. Your vew is overly cultural deterministic. Every nation is prone to fascism. Italy was a fascist country despite its Roman heritage. The US was an inch away from electing a president with fascist sympathies before the war. There is no such thing as evil Europe and benign US. the question whether fascism takes root has to do with trust in institutions, resentment of the population towards foreigners , fear of the the loss of status and longing for times gone by during which everything was supposedly better... Whether one reads Hegel or Mill does not matter as both are not widely read anyways. Fascism creeps in through the mass media, through appeal to emotion rather then reason in times of economic crisis.

Texas really shocked me by making a law that encourages people to report on their family or neighbors, or anyone they think might be suspect of helping in an abortion. These things were the horror of fascist Germany. We seem to be blind to this insidious perversion of our democracy and liberty. — Athena

It is of course always good to remain watchful. Everywhere surveillance is being strengthened and that is a worrying development. So indeed be watchful of intrusions of privacy and of the massing of state power. No state is immune, I think that is a wise lesson. However, I do not share your cultural explanation.

Is Germany Incurable? — Athena

Leprosy is a considered a disease but Buddhism is considered by some to be a cure. Both mess up our pain threshold.

:snicker:

Why are these terrible things happening? — Athena

Reminds me of a favorite line from Samuel Beckett, novelist, playwright and full-throated pessimist:

"You're on Earth. And there's no cure for that."

This is overstating the case. At least it seems that way from where I sit. Sure, there were at the time. and there still are Americans who sympathize with the idea of 'white racial superiority'. However, racist white Americans were/are prone to be anti anything non-white, whereas the Nazis targeted Jewish people.

The history behind how this all came to be is complex, for sure, but rest assured that there is always one deep seated mechanism at work:The systematic dehumanization of the 'enemy', whomever it may be. It's much easier to live with oneself when treating others cruelly or killing them outright, if those being treated as such have been previously devalued to the point of worthlessness in the mind(s) of the one(those) causing injury. That's the key core element common between Nazi Germany, the everyday affects/effects of the systemic racism inherent to The United States, and serial killers. We've not emulated Nazi Germany to the extent you suggest.

Babies and bathwater...

Americans were in awe of Germany's modes of manufacture and production, as well they ought have been. The Germans knew/know their shit when it came to such things. Given our post war economic boom was centered around manufacturing, it made good sense to emulate Germany in that regard, for they've always been very good at it. There were Nazi scientists brought on board in order to acquire their knowledge/expertise on rockets and nuclear dynamics as well.

All this being said, circling back to the OP...

American news outlets, today, are driven by profit. Profits come from advertising revenue. Advertisers want to reach as many potential customers as possible. Therefore, advertisers will pay the highest amount of revenue to the channels whose timeslots have the largest viewing population.

Shock sells.

In the seventies, the rock group KISS put on a constant theatrical production meant to shock conservative American values, particularly religious values and mores. The attention paid to them, much of which was by those avowed to somehow rid the country of their influence, made them global rockstars. The attention...

Shock sells.

Trump just said out loud what many Americans had been saying in private for a very long time. Sadly. Sadder still, is how utterly inept the opponents of such norms have been. Then there is the deep seated issue of who decides the narrative put into the public domain.

Point is that it's not so simple as to say that The United States is in trouble because we copied Germany. — creativesoul

I agree that racism was always a problem in the US and I will go further to say especially in the South it was taught in public education. The North tried to end slavery through education but the South caught on and began publishing its own textbooks that supported slavery. However, In the West prejudice against Asians was more of a problem and Oregon had sundown laws that meant killing a person of color if s/he did not leave town by sundown. Christianity the sole provider of morality does not make democratic values clear, however, secular education did make democratic values clear, especially at times of war. Teach those values to Black folk and they start acting like they have universal human rights too. You will not find that in Germany before the end of WWII.

Personally, I think the reality of prejudice and racism is fascinating. How much of it is natural and how much of it is cultural? India has a very mixed population. Some native Americans were friendlier than other tribes. However, I don't want to stray too far from Hegal and Neitzche in this thread. Especially Hegel can lead to religious zealots and Nitsche can lead to supremacists. And obviously, if schools are not daily teaching virtues, the qualities of good citizenship, and democratic values, they are not learned. Making the problem of our slave history, and prejudice, forbidden school subjects will for sure promote the problems, and here is where Germany has far surpassed the US. Germany teaches their immoral actions against others in schools and publically makes everyone aware of the wrongs with signs and monuments. Shame on US for making change impossible. Like it is okay to make a person of color feel terrible but we must not say something that makes Whites feel uncomfortable? Perhaps a philosophy forum can deal with this better than our nation has?

What America Taught the Nazis in the 1930s - The Atlantichttps://www.theatlantic.com › archive › 2017/11 › what...
Nov 15, 2017 — In the 1930s, the Germans were fascinated by the global leader in codified racism—the United States. — Ira Katznelson

Many people, even those with no more than a passing interest in sport, have heard of Jesse Owens, the American athlete who ruined Adolf Hitler’s moment in the sun. For there can be no question that Hitler saw the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin as the ideal platform from which to amplify Nazi propaganda and demonstrate his white supremacist ideology. But Owens, the grandchild of a slave, shattered that illusion. — The Guardian

Do you see mention of "White Supremacist"? That was taught in Germany and today it is being taught in the US. Democratic values are not being taught. Some places have made it against the law to speak the truth and this is very much an education problem in some states and a freedom of speech issue. At least we should be teaching democratic values, but in some places, it is believed we have democracy because of Christianity and no one knows what Greek and Roman classics have to do with understanding democracy. Here is an interesting chart when considering how Germany influenced the US, beyond replacing Greek philosophers with German ones.

• Chart: 15% of Americans Have German Ancestry | Statistahttps://www.statista.com › Topics › United States

I am so glad you are aware of "Americans were in awe of Germany's modes of manufacture and production". That became evident when we entered WWI. One of the speakers at the 1917 National Education Association praises Germany's technological and military accomplishments and explains why our education needs to emulate Germany's. I have said this is when our public schools added vocational training. We stopped short of the technological change made in 1958 because until the technology of WWII, we thought patriotism was the strongest part of our defense and teachers were defending our democracy in the classroom, making sure everyone knew why our democracy must be defended. There are serious social, economic, and political ramifications of the 1958 change that more completely adopted the German model.

"The history behind how this all came to be is complex, for sure, but rest assured that there is always one deep seated mechanism at work: The systematic dehumanization of the 'enemy', whomever it may be. " I have to run but first I have to point out the Republican party is strongly backed the Evangelical Christians and they have made "liberals" the enemy. Liberals don't know morals you know and are evil and will destroy America if they are not overwhelmed by Conservatives. Many strongly argue the US is not a democracy but a Republic, while Christians take credit for our democracy. :joke: It is a little whacko. A uniting truth is what the 1958 National Defense Act did to bring on all these problems. But on we can mobilize for war in 4 hours and do more damage in a day than many troops could have done in weeks when we entered WWII.

Good post. What you wrote makes a lot of sense and is well-put.

Well-thought-through and well-expressed.

Making the problem of our slave history, and prejudice, forbidden school subjects will for sure promote the problems, and here is where Germany has far surpassed the US. Germany teaches their immoral actions against others in schools and publically makes everyone aware of the wrongs with signs and monuments. Shame on US for making change impossible. Like it is okay to make a person of color feel terrible but we must not say something that makes Whites feel uncomfortable? Perhaps a philosophy forum can deal with this better than our nation has? — Athena

We're in complete agreement here. American history textbooks are a joke. An injurious one at that.

I appreciate that this brings up the idea that Nazi Germany used segregationist and eugenicist United States as the model for its anti-Semitic ideal of an Aryan Germany.

I do think that there is a detrimental puritanical ideal of human society and behavior that permeates American society. I couldn't say if Germany suffers the same "super-ego" oppressive tendency.

However, I am reminded of an interesting element of American society provided by some writer I can't remember that observed the behavior of temperance rallies back in the early 20th century in my homeland of Appalachia. People would spend days railing against the evils of demon liquor and then afterwards would pick up moonshine from the local stil'.

So, the Puritanical streak in America was always something that made transgression more enjoyable.

I do think that the implicit fascist urge goes back to puritanism or the idea of purity. That there is some preordained pure position attainable by human beings. However, I also think that Americans at least - if not Germans - also tend to rebel against that. Which is why the shadow of fascism always hovers over America but never descends. — ASmallTalentForWar

I love your post. To get directly to the point, besides the Christian problem of Christians competing against other to produce the most saints and killing each other, what made Germany so powerful was the Prussian love of military might and its excellent bureaucratic organization. The Prussians applied their military bureaucracy to the whole of Germany when they took control. This is the most important piece of what I have to say.

You mentioned the Puritans but the Quakers were even more influential in creating the US democracy, and German Methodists thought they had the method for making humans better and they were not shy about forcing their method on others. Like the Evangelicals and Shia Muslims, these folks can be a problem to our democratic values, however, it is the Prussians we should study to understand why the Germans had superior military technology and were well equipped for war, and later became the nightmare of Fascism and the holocaust. It is a mix of things and what the media is not getting is what Prussian education and bureaucracy have to do with being what we defended out democracy against.

By the third century B.C., the Celts controlled much of the European continent north of the Alps mountain range, including present-day Ireland and Great Britain.Nov 30, 2017

Who Were Celts - HISTORY — History Channel

Celts and Greeks got a long, but not so much Celts and Romans. Independence and liberty go with Celts not Romans. Rome came with Christianity that means conformity and living under a heirarchy of authoirty. It is all the historical stew we are talking about. I won't argue with what you said about people fighting for liberty.

Shit I am late, bye.

How different are we from fascist Germany? — Athena

How different is present America from the segrationist America would be more interesting.

Totalitarian states actually give the perfect reason for people to adapt to it: it's simply survival. Yes, you can be a hero and fight the system, but you can easily pay the ultimate price, or your loved ones, without anyone even knowing about it.

Nazi Germany and post-war Germany are so different as the Third Reich collapsed so totally. In it's death throws it was genuinely destroying itself and the defeat was so bad that you really had a collective understanding that it didn't work and that it was utterly bad. This created the rare example of a country truly looking at it's past and condemning it. And that of course makes it so easy to hate.

In other countries, especially in Spain and Portugal, the fascist past is more problematic. It wasn't defeated in war. Spain just eased off the era of Franco and António de Oliveira Salazar's Portugal the Estado Novo, basically ended with the Carnation Revolution.

Quite different are the totalitarian systems which still have their supporters around who are respected "contrarians" and ideological minorities.

Not too different. The National Socialists, Italian Fascists, and New Deal liberals developed surprisingly similar systems to inspire and control their citizens. A good book on this subject is Three New Deals by Wolfgang Schivelbusch.

I do need to point out that the correct names are Hegel and Nietzsche... Those philosophers were never very popular in the US actually. Nietzsche bore a deep mistrust of nationalist Germans. Your vew is overly cultural deterministic. Every nation is prone to fascism. Italy was a fascist country despite its Roman heritage. The US was an inch away from electing a president with fascist sympathies before the war. There is no such thing as evil Europe and benign US. the question whether fascism takes root has to do with trust in institutions, resentment of the population towards foreigners , fear of the the loss of status and longing for times gone by during which everything was supposedly better... Whether one reads Hegel or Mill does not matter as both are not widely read anyways. Fascism creeps in through the mass media, through appeal to emotion rather then reason in times of economic crisis.

It is of course always good to remain watchful. Everywhere surveillance is being strengthened and that is a worrying development. So indeed be watchful of intrusions of privacy and of the massing of state power. No state is immune, I think that is a wise lesson. However, I do not share your cultural explanation. — Tobias

I love your term "cultural deterministic". That is perfect for what I have been trying to say for years but could not think of the right words. Of course, you do not agree with what I said because you do not have the same source of information, so I hope you don't mind me sharing my sources of information.

In the past, we all were more or less flying by the seats of our pants. We adopted the German (Prussian) model of government for a few reasons. 1. Merit hiring is supposed to correct the problems with Nepotism, hiring family or people who you know, for reasons other than their ability to do the job. But what the heck, we all were doing the best we could without technological education, which brings me to the next reason. Because each person did the job the best s/he could, when s/he died or retired, it would throw everything into chaos. The next person to do the job would not have the same talents and interests and would do the job totally differently. Everyone else in the office would have to adjust to the new person. We can see this when we change presidents. The following present completely wipes out what the previous president had done, and all the people around him are changed to fit his personality and desires. Trump was really frustrated because of the limits to his power, and few of us have the power we give presidents.

The Prussian military model means that even if all your generals are destroyed, the war will proceed as planned. Every detail of the operation is planned. Every job is planned in detail so everyone who does the job will do it the same as the person before. Kings die, but bureaucracies never die.

In the past, personal and political liberty depended to a considerable extent upon governmental inefficiency. The spirit of tyranny was always more than willing; but its organization was generally weak. Progressive science and technology have changed all this completely. — Aldous Huxley

As Tocqueville said in his 1830 book about "Democracy in America".

After having thus taken each individual one by one into its powerful hands, and having molded him as it pleases, the sovereign power extends its arms over the entire society; it covers the surface of society with a network of small, complicated, minute, and uniform rules, which the most original minds and the most vigorous souls cannot break through to go beyond the crowd; it does not break wills, but it softens them, bends them and directs them; it rarely forces action, but it constantly opposes your acting; it does not destroy, it prevents birth; it does not tyrannize, it hinders, it represses, it enervates, it extinguishes, it stupifies, and finally it reduces each nation to being nothing more than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd. — Tocqueville

Tranny and Despotism have always been with us. It was just waiting for the Prussian model of bureaucracy to fully manifest. That would not be all bad because there are good reasons for the change, but when we also replaced our past liberal education with the Prussian model, we also "molded him". That is, we are not preparing our young for citizenship in the democracy we had, but in 1958 we began molding our young for the same New World Order, we defeated in war. The 1958 National Defense Education Act had a 4-year limit but became permanent. Our young are no longer prepared for leadership but to be followers. We replaced education for independent thinking with "group think", and don't you think you should die your hair green and put a ring in your nose so everyone knows you are one of them and hip.

At the 1917 National Education Association Conference, Sara H, Fahey quoted, Tagore, to explain our enemy and why we have to defend our democracy in a war. He said, "Whatever their efficiency, such great organizations are so impersonal that they bear down on the individual lives of the people like a hydraulic press whose action is completely impersonal and therefore completely effective in crushing out individual liberty and power."

Not too different. The National Socialists, Italian Fascists, and New Deal liberals developed surprisingly similar systems to inspire and control their citizens. A good book on this subject is Three New Deals by Wolfgang Schivelbusch. — NOS4A2

Of course, they did because they could not have the government programs without the bureaucratic organization. Germany had a better standard of living than Britain when we enter the first world war because Germany had social programs and the rest of us did not.

Knowing your population is essential to modern warfare, and what could be better than giving everyone a social security number? Numbers help keep track of things. But that is not what we thought of when we got a job and signed up for social security. Clearly, babies do not have social accounts but we are now numbering them when they are born.

I have not read your book but have a copy of "Big Government" praising the development of big government which was a republican and democrat joint effort, and I have books warning of the dangers of giving government these new powers, and also the danger of government contracts that do not end when the war ends.

How different is present America from the segrationist America would be more interesting.

Totalitarian states actually give the perfect reason for people to adapt to it: it's simply survival. Yes, you can be a hero and fight the system, but you can easily pay the ultimate price, or your loved ones, without anyone even knowing about it.

Nazi Germany and post-war Germany are so different as the Third Reich collapsed so totally. In it's death throws it was genuinely destroying itself and the defeat was so bad that you really had a collective understanding that it didn't work and that it was utterly bad. This created the rare example of a country truly looking at it's past and condemning it. And that of course makes it so easy to hate.

In other countries, especially in Spain and Portugal, the fascist past is more problematic. It wasn't defeated in war. Spain just eased off the era of Franco and António de Oliveira Salazar's Portugal the Estado Novo, basically ended with the Carnation Revolution.

Quite different are the totalitarian systems which still have their supporters around who are respected "contrarians" and ideological minorities. — ssu

Excellent, full of things to think about.

The racist thing is a distraction from the wanting a totalitarian system and I am so glad you brought in the rest of the world. Through the internet, I know a Portuguese man and the brutality of fascism is still with him. Why not go with what works? Except as you said. in Germany, it was clear it did not work. But exactly what piece of it did not work? Oh man, this communication seems impossible because nothing is simple! It is mind-boggling that people could want Putin in charge, but in the US many people want Trump in charge and I can't explain this. But somewhere in this soup of thoughts is a burning need to be superior and in control, and to have no qualms about exploiti8ng or crashing others.

Why is being a Nazi attractive to some? Is that different from wanting to be in the Ku Klus Klan? Those questions beg psychological answers, but also organizational and sociologic answers. Many people thought fascism was the answer to preventing economy collapses, and many see socialism as more just, and do we want to get into our human nature and what drives us to choose one movement over another?

What made our democracy worth fighting for? I am saying we are no longer the democracy we defended. I will also say the New Deal is fascist but is that organization beneficial?

That's indeed the red pill of the deepest red! Great thread. And we let our children still go to school? To turn them from colorful, playful little humans into brainwashed and programmed grey objectively thinking copies of the schemes the powers have in mind? Dear mother of gods... — Hillary

Well, now that is something I want to discuss. Public education is like a genie in a lamp, The defined purpose is the wish and the students are the genie. We changed that wish in 1958 and now have cultural determinism and chaos! This does not feel like the past where we had individual liberty and power and the services and businesses asked "how can I help you", instead of "how should I direct your call". Some of us older folks are experiencing culture shock and if we are renting it is very clear we are no longer the authority in our own home, but we live under the authority of property managers who ignore the repairs that need to be made but evict people who don't follow the rules. The number of people who have lost their careers because they said the wrong thing, horrifies me. They may have been very offensive but what happened to freedom of speech? Many years ago my grandmother walked away from her teaching job because the principal interfered with the discipline of her classroom, and today teachers assume they work under authority. I feel like I am stumbling to explain why I think something has gone very wrong.

In the 70s we announced a national youth crisis and blamed the parents. While the teachers are sure the parents just don't care and the parents are blaming the teachers for what is going wrong. We are not looking at the federal government and the changed organization and changed the purpose of education, and why some think Trump is our Hitler while others are very willing to lick his boots.

White supremacist or Nazi? Hatred of Blacks and Jews, racism equal to the German past? American exceptionalism, or German superiority? Hail Hitler or Hail Trump? Reactionary politics and civil rebellion. culture wars, the threat of Evangelical control that is no better than being forced to live with Shia law, because both religious groups are driven to control. How different are we from fascist Germany? — Athena

I am not a big fan of Trump or Evangelicals, but perceiving them as Hitler and Nazis is outright delusional. America has lots and lots of problems, but most of them come from the left trying to keep people angry and fearful, be it climate, covid, blm, Trump, etc.

I am not a big fan of Trump or Evangelicals, but perceiving them as Hitler and Nazis is outright delusional. America has lots and lots of problems, but most of them come from the left trying to keep people angry and fearful, be it climate, covid, blm, Trump, etc. — M777

Trump organized at violent attack on the Capitol in an attempt to overthrow the government. Liberals did not cause that.

How many people died as a result? Which side did the shooting?

How many people died as a result? Which side did the shooting? — M777

200 seriously injured police officers. Does that give you a thrill?!

prooflink? :D

↪Jackson prooflink? — M777

Ignorance is not an argument.

How many policeman killed on jan 6? How many killed during the blm riots?

How many policeman killed on jan 6? How many killed during the blm riots? — M777

What about everything besides the topic?!

Like what? As I see it, the left creates a completely unrealistic narrative, comparing the right/Trump to Hitler and naive people fall for it, ripping the country apart.

Like what? As I see it, the left creates a completely unrealistic narrative, comparing the right/Trump to Hitler and naive people fall for it, ripping the country apart. — M777

I said nothing about Hitler.

I was referring to the original post.

You guys can find your argument in history as stated in the OP. Germany had reactionary politics and that is now true of the US.

The Conservative Revolution (German: Konservative Revolution), also known as the German neoconservative movement[1][2] or new nationalism,[3][2] was a German national-conservative movement prominent during the Weimar Republic, in the years between World War I and Nazi Germany (1918–1933). — Wikipedia

Why the denial of this instead of questioning the effect of adopting the German models of bureaucracy and education?

Plunged into what historian Fritz Stern has named a deep "cultural despair", uprooted as they felt within the rationalism and scientism of the modern world, theorists of the Conservative Revolution drew inspiration from various elements of the 19th century, including Friedrich Nietzsche's contempt for Christian ethics, democracy and egalitarianism; the anti-modern and anti-rationalist German Romanticism; the vision of an organic and organized society cultivated by the Völkisch movement; a Prussian tradition of militaristic and authoritarian nationalism; and their own experience on the front line during World War I, escorted by both irrational violence and comradeship spirit. — Wikipedia