Check your mail... We were writing at the same time!

Check your mail... We were writing at the same time — Hillary

Of course we were :roll: Anyway, I like to give people a little rope. Let's see!

Of course we were — universeness

We were! I just saw you were online!

We were! I just saw you were online! — Hillary

Plausible yes but I don't see why I had to be online at the moment you send a PM with a physics question. I would have noticed the PM as soon as I came online.

Plausible yes but I don't see why I had to be online at the moment you send a PM with a physics question. I would have noticed the PM as soon as I came online. — universeness

So I should have written it immediately after the offer? "The offer stands for 12 hours only!"?

So I should have written it immediately after the offer? "The offer stands for 12 hours only!"? — Hillary

Follow-up time is very important when others offer to assist you.
Especially when your credibility is already compromised Mr roleplaying athiest.

Especially when your credibility is already compromised Mr roleplaying athiest. — universeness

You are the roleplaying atheist. What credibility you talk about? Not being "peer reviewed" or an article on my name? Well, then you're credible...

:down:

Is that all you got, Caesar?

The most shallow vessels make the loudest noise.
You are lost!

The most shallow vessels make the loudest noise.
You are lost! — universeness

On the contrary! Im found! And ahead of my time, insofar physics is concerned.

You could push away the popping into existence to an infinite past — Hillary

Doesn't require an infinite past, just initial conditions.

To say its an eternal structure makes sense only from the emergent thermodynamic, unidirectional time perspective, as experiences in the two universes emerging on it periodically (each new pair with a new beginning in time). The question is: who the fuck made that 4d structure? Answer: gods created it to run a material version of the eternal etherical heaven on. — Hillary

If indeed the arrow of time is associated with thermodynamics, this doesn't preclude a (thermodynamically) static quantum system from being the fundamental basis from which it emerges.

Something is uncreated. IMO, it's more plausible to think that intelligence emerged gradually, rather than existing uncaused in a complete form, because intelligence implies a great deal of organization.

If indeed the arrow of time is associated with thermodynamics, this doesn't preclude a (thermodynamically) static quantum system from being the fundamental basis from which it emerges. — Relativist

Precisely. One cannot say time runs forward or backwards in such a primordial state.

Something is uncreated. — Relativist

Yes. The universe is uncreated if you turn time backwards. But then a new appears at the same time at infinity, running back to the central singularity.

Intelligence evolved slowly, but tthe life that slowly evolved is the material version of eternal heavenly life.

-The universe is made from non-intelligent dead basic material
-Dead, non-intelligent basic material can't bring itself into existence. It's simply not smart enough.
-Conclusion: intelligent gods have brought the basic material into existence. They are the reason of existence, whatever that reason might have been. — Hillary

Awesome argument.
But how do you deal with theory of evolution?

Theory of evolution claims life come out of water, which is a non intelligent material.
If we exclude animals and humans and assume there is none for now, then plants are living but non-intelligent.

But how do you deal with theory of evolution? — SpaceDweller

I think they made the basics. If all life in heaven took part in the development, research, and finally creation of the particles with the right properties, in the right spacetime, all intelligences, all life, could evolve in the right way to give rise to all life, and every eternal god could have a counterpart in the temporary divine material version in the material universe. The big bang could bang periodically, to let life develop (which scientists call evolution) again and again, so the eternal gods could watch them over and over again. A reason for creation could be that boredom or and existential void hit the heavens... :starstruck:

so the eternal gods could watch them over and over again — Hillary

One problem is that big bang is modern theory of universe, therefore a God which is the creator of big bang (or a series of big bangs) does not fit into any of the revelations about God that we have today.

In other words with such hypothesis you're creating a new religion.

One problem is that big bang is modern theory of universe, therefore a God which is the creator of big bang (or a series of big bangs) does not fit into any of the revelations about God that we have today.

In other words with such hypothesis you're creating a new religion. — SpaceDweller

Believe it or not, but I had a truly amazing dream. Maybe it were the gods themselves who made me dream, or maybe it was my unconsciousness in action, but I saw thousands of creatures working together and when they had found the solution they magically turned the particles real. And the universe was born. And the first bang banged... The standard view on god is an archaic outdated, old-fashioned one.

I find your argument in OP compelling because, the only thing that could make it wrong is biological phenomena of how intelligent life come to existence, out of water.

A good thing is that life out of water can't be reproduced with all the technological advancements we have.

I think it's either biological phenomena or God, but how to construct arguments on these 2 hypothesis is beyond my imagination.

A good thing is that life out of water can't be reproduced with all the technological advancements we have. — SpaceDweller

Good observation. Not one single lifeform can be produced in a lob. Not even a virus.

I think it's either biological phenomena or God, but how to construct arguments on these 2 hypothesis is beyond my imagination. — SpaceDweller

Life evolving naturally was the intention of the gods. The only thing they had to create was a rightly structured 4d quantum vacuum, containing the right virtual particles (which differ from real ones in the sense that they have all momenta and energies, as independent variables). Just create that and two universes bang into existence automatically. Again and again. As planned. We are doomed to dance for the gods over and over. But I don't mind!