Especially when the officials well know the Bundy family. They made a similar stance years ago, right? Nobody got hurt. Yeah, the government backed down. What a huge victory for the Bundy's. The Bundy's didn't face long prison sentences, as they surely aren't now escaped convicts.I don't think it will, nor do I think it will end in a deadly inferno like Waco. — Hanover
Mmm, stir-fried pig brains.The worse injuries were neurological -- from the "pig brain blaster" that was used to extract brains from pig skulls for use in Korean stir fry — Bitter Crank
Ammon Bundy bears a startling resemblance to Torgo from Manos: The Hands of Fate a movie dear to the hearts of fans of MST3K. I wonder if they would best be besieged, as it were; nobody in and nobody out, until there is a resolution. — Ciceronianus the White
Yes, I'll take that bet. If they were black or Muslim and in a remote Oregon outpost arguing that some ranchers got unfair treatment, then there would not be a response greater than what we see here. It'd be confusing no doubt given the strange demographics for the region, but I don't see a dissimilar response.
Here's where you say "it would too be different," and I say "no it wouldn't." We then would go back and forth calling each other out of touch for a little while and then we'd go on talking about something else.
To the extent that you want to change the facts to include an urban area or an argument over some other cause, then we'd have dissimilar, inapplicable facts. — Hanover
We both know what would have happened if 150 brown people went to some federal building armed with assault rifles and occupied it by force. There's a hypocrisy here that's part of a greater narrative, which, constrained by the racial aspect itself, is this: the American state is afraid of white people. Seriously, the American state rarely ever does anything against white people that organize politically if they are right-wingers. They let you walk around with assault rifles anywhere you go, they arrest your activists instead of just executing them on the spot (e.g. Dylan Storm Roof), they give into most of your demands (e.g. Tea Party)... being white, right-wing and politically active in America is a dream come true for any politically minded person! It's a pity that the organized ones in America are bible thumping constitutionalists, otherwise everyone would be living in some communist utopia dreamland by now instead of trying to extend the rights of some millionaire ranchers. — discoii
You're not aware that BLM leases to ranchers on public lands are at below market value and represent a taxpayer subsidy to the "ranching lifestyle", one that degrades public lands and externalizes the costs to the taxpayers? I guess you're not very informed on the subject. — Landru Guide Us
These freaks need to be surrounded and arrested, and if they don't go peacefully, they should be shot dead. They are armed insurrectionists who represent a much greater threat to the US than some ISIS maniacs. These guys threaten the rule of law. — Landru Guide Us
The more interesting thought experiment is the Muslim one. Muslim's are the new "other" in the US at the moment. — Baden
What was important to the Established Order was suppressing workers rights. — Bitter Crank
The BLM leases public land, BACK to the ranchers that have been there since before the BLM. Does that not sound a bit illogical to you? — ArguingWAristotleTiff
The problem with taking a position that you clearly don't believe in is that no one will take you seriously when you say it, but maybe it was fun to say it anyway.
I think they should kill everyone everywhere. That way, there'll be no more violence. — Hanover
You'll need to complete your thought experiment with some additional facts. Why exactly have these Muslims seized this federal outpost? Are they trying to start a Muslim state, or are they just cattle ranchers who happen to be Muslim? It would seem that if their objective is to start a theocracy in the rugged hills of Oregon, then there'd be a reason to take that threat more seriously (especially in light of ISIS) than a bunch of pissed off ranchers who want better access to grazing land. — Hanover
Typical of gun nuts, now you're just making stuff up. — Landru Guide Us
The part that bothers me is that if black people had done it, they'd be dead. — Moliere
So by your own standard, we should be shooting these creeps with snipers while Fox news cheers the shooting on. But of course, they're white guys, so that won't happen. — Landru Guide Us
What exactly am I making up in my post? — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Another reason it won't happen (although I'm not really conceding the well thought out point that it's only their whiteness that is acting as their shield) is because they took over a shed deep in the wilderness that no one really cares about other than the media and those who see it as an analogy to something great big and important, as opposed to it really just being a shitty old shed in the freezing ass woods of Oregon. — Hanover
Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but it might be that you've selected an arbitrary characteristic (e.g., skin colour) as the distinguishing feature. Perhaps white people have more friends in law enforcement (and this itself might be institutionalized racism) and so when a situation like this occurs it's not the colour of their skin that saves them but the personal connections they have to prevent the escalation. In cases where violence erupts, there might be a variety of causes and singling out skin colour is not entirely productive, even if it is somewhat (mostly) appropriate. — Soylent
In other words the only skin in the game I have, is the right to bear arms, — ArguingWAristotleTiff
ISIS can just kill people. — Landru Guide Us
Again, as others have pointed out, if Muslim extremists or the Black Panthers took over an isolated area, the GOP would be demanding air strikes. So you're really not dealing with the issue of how big a role race plays in this. — Landru Guide Us
The BLM leases public land, BACK to the ranchers that have been there since before the BLM. Does that not sound a bit illogical to you?
Doesn't ISIS spread mindless self-serving narratives AND kill people? I might be wrong because I don't know ISIS principles and an effort to find out might draw suspicion upon myself (yay democracy!). — Soylent
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