The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight. — Joseph Campbell

I'd like to take a look at the link between madness and mysticism. — ZzzoneiroCosm

If some Xs are linked to some Ys - but we grant that not all Xs are linked to all Ys - there is still a link, an analyzable link, between X and Y. — ZzzoneiroCosm

If some set of cars are linked to some set of red things, there is an analyzable link between said set of cars and said set of red things. — ZzzoneiroCosm

I think you're concocting difficulties where none are obvious. — ZzzoneiroCosm

At any rate, this thread isn't interrogating the existence of a link between mysticism and madness. I begin with the premise - the assumption, if you like - more accurately, the hypothesis, grounded in lifelong more or less scholarly interest in and research of both phenomena - that a link exists between mysticism and madness. — ZzzoneiroCosm

I appreciate your challenge, challenges are fun. — ZzzoneiroCosm

If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia. If the dead talk to you, you are a spiritualist; If you talk to the dead, you are a schizophrenic. — Thomas Szasz

If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia. — Thomas Szasz

So, granting that the present Dalai Lama is sincere in his views and thereby a mystic, what would link the present Dalai Lama to madness? — javra

The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight. — Joseph Campbell

If you talk to God, you are praying; If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia. If the dead talk to you, you are a spiritualist; If you talk to the dead, you are a schizophrenic. — Thomas Szasz

The Dalai Lama is likely a case of swimming. — ZzzoneiroCosm

So much for challenges being fun, I guess. OK, then. — javra

At any rate, this thread isn't interrogating the existence of a link between mysticism and madness. — ZzzoneiroCosm

ought the Dalai Lama be given medications till he holds no more belief in Nirvana and related and/or derivative Buddhist ideas - this on grounds that mysticism is linked to madness? — javra

Mystical psychosis is a term coined by Arthur J. Deikman in the early 1970s to characterize first-person accounts of psychotic experiences[1] that are strikingly similar to reports of mystical experiences.[2][3][4][5] According to Deikman, and authors from a number of disciplines, psychotic experience need not be considered pathological, especially if consideration is given to the values and beliefs of the individual concerned.[6][7] Deikman thought the mystical experience was brought about through a "deautomatization" or undoing of habitual psychological structures that organize, limit, select, and interpret perceptual stimuli.[8] There may be several causes of deautomatization—exposure to severe stress, substance abuse[9][10] or withdrawal, and mood disorders.[11]

A closely related category is mystical experience with psychotic features, proposed by David Lukoff in 1985.[12]

A first episode of mystical psychosis is often very frightening, confusing and distressing, particularly because it is an unfamiliar experience. For example, researchers have found that people experiencing paranormal and mystical phenomena report many of the symptoms of panic attacks.[13]

On the basis of comparison of mystical experience and psychotic experience Deikman came to a conclusion that mystical experience can be caused by "deautomatization" or transformation of habitual psychological structures which organize, limit, select and interpret perceptional incentives that is interfaced to heavy stresses and emotional shocks.[14] He described usual symptoms of mystical psychosis which consist in strengthening of a receptive mode and weakening of a mode of action.

People susceptible to mystical psychosis become much more impressible. They feel a unification with society, with the world, God, and also feel washing out the perceptive and conceptual borders. Similarity of mystical psychosis to mystical experience is expressed in sudden, distinct and very strong transition to a receptive mode. It is characterized with easing the subject—object distinction, sensitivity increase and nonverbal, lateral, intuitive thought processes.[15]

Deikman's opinion that experience of mystical experience in itself can't be a sign to psychopathology, even in case of this experience at the persons susceptible to neurophysiological and psychiatric frustration, in many respects defined the relation to mystical experiences in modern psychology and psychiatry.

Deikman considered that all-encompassing unity opened in mysticism can be all-encompassing unity of reality.[16] — wiki

And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. — Luke 2:8-10

A first episode of mystical psychosis is often very frightening, confusing and distressing, particularly because it is an unfamiliar experience. For example, researchers have found that people experiencing paranormal and mystical phenomena report many of the symptoms of panic attacks. — wiki

I have met people who think that they are Jesus, God, Krishna, Mohammad, Vishnu, Ironman, Thor, The Grim Reaper, The President of the World Bank, Axel Rose, Marilyn Monroe, Doctor Who, John Lennon, CIA agents, genius physicists and assorted healers and sages. No one ever sees themselves as a bank teller or car wash attendant... — Tom Storm

He will then shift the major part of his energies to the task of molding himself, by a rigid system of inner dictates, into a being of absolute perfection. For nothing short of godlike perfection can fulfill his idealized image of himself and satisfy his pride in the exalted attributes which (so he feels) he has, could have, or should have...Self-idealization, in its various aspects, is what I suggest calling a comprehensive neurotic solution—i.e., a solution not only for a particular conflict but one that implicitly promises to satisfy all the inner needs that have been in an individual at a given time...Moreover, it promises not only a riddance from his painful and unbearable feelings (feeling lost, anxious, inferior, and divided), but in addition an ultimately mysterious fulfillment of himself and his life. No wonder, then, that when he believes he has found such a solution he clings to it for dear life. No wonder that, to use a good psychiatric term, it becomes compulsive. — Karen Horney

I have spent around three decades working with people (generally in psycho-social and addiction settings) who have various forms of psychotic illness - most typically schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder and bi-polar disorder - many of whom were/are untreated. — Tom Storm

Being a mystic does not preclude her also being a schizophrenic or vice versa. — 180 Proof

Reality seems to be unveiled as never before, and the visual world looks peculiar and eerie - weirdly beautiful, tantalizingly significant, or perhaps horrifying in some insidious but ineffable way...Fascinated by this vision, the patient often stares intently at the world ...demonstrating the "truth-taking stare"...a relatively normal perception is perceived as having a special kind of meaning...Patients in these moments may have a feeling "of crystal-clear sight, of profound penetration into the essence of things.... — Sass - Madness and Modernism, p. 43-44

Either Jesus was Lunatic or Liar or Lord. — Agent Smith

Brain ECG in meditation looks more like ECG when asleep than when awake. — Agent Smith