Totally relate to that. I stumbled into an accidental career in computer technology, when I went back to finish my Honours year in comparative religion. There was a job on the wall of the student employment office 'two weeks casual sales assistant at Campus Computer Centre'. At the time I had practically zero understanding of either computers or business practices. But until then I was completely at a loss for what to do, and at that stage I was (let's see) 27 already, and it turned out to be a life-changing event. 'Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans' is still one of my favourite aphorisms.

most employers (99.9%) are going to feel your studies are more of an impediment in their organization than a contribution--an imposition upon them. — Bitter Crank

Precisely, even though they're empirically in the wrong. If you mix that with an introverted personality type, I'm really at a loss as to how I will be hired anywhere. I actually applied for a job at Subway two years, before I decided to get the MA. I was interviewed but never heard back from the manager. Why? Did she really determine that I couldn't make sandwiches? Was it the aura I exude? I don't know, but I do know that I would be a good employee, as opposed to the flaky people that often work in those jobs. That's why I have the certificate jobs on my list, because truck drivers and English language teachers are in high demand and if you have the certificate, you're basically guaranteed a job.

but taught like in the 60s, before the post-modernism fungus rotted its way through academia. — Bitter Crank

Very much agreed!

Plan on being an old man who has been reading all his life, not one of those professionals who boasts — Bitter Crank

Yes, I don't plan on ceasing to read and write if and when I'm not in school. If I were independently wealthy, like Schopenhauer was lucky enough to be, I would go build a log cabin, finish my book collection, and commence doing virtually nothing but reading and writing.

Unfortunately, the ridiculous world exists within cloistered walls. — Bitter Crank

Oh sure, but I think I would be able to handle it better than outside of them.

Maybe you could join the Catholic Workers? They are in the world and resist the world. Kind of lefty, so maybe not a good fit for you. — Bitter Crank

Lol.

I have known a handful of people who were very intelligent, had not gone to college--or had stalled out on their PhD program, were very well read, were very insightful about life in general, and did not have good jobs, or not even bad jobs. They scrounged. They were not unhappy; at least they were no unhappier than anybody else.

None of these folk were much interested in Buddhism, but they all practiced a secular detachment and indifference to the expectations that they would normally have expected to live up to. They gave their time to politics (leftists, mostly), small religious groups, gay community projects, and the like. They were devoted to what they thought was important. Sort of like Catholic Workers live.

This isn't an easy way to live; one still has to find a little income, somewhere. (Jeff always said that he'd live in a box under a bridge before he'd consider driving a city bus.) Disability, welfare, temp work, odd jobs, low payed jobs at copy centers, stuff like that. One has to adjust one's lifestyle accordingly (down, down, way down), and life's needs (housing, clothing, food, medicine...) might always be precarious. Or, one might actually have a good job that allows one a fair amount of free time. I had a few of those. Real jobs, but I wasn't tied down to a desk.

I wish everyone success, but if you don't find it--don't despair.

Oh sure, but I think I would be able to handle it better than outside of them. — Thorongil

Why don't you visit a monastery? They often have a visitation program where you can get a sample of what monastic life is like?

Why don't you visit a monastery? They often have a visitation program where you can get a sample of what monastic life is like? — Bitter Crank

I have visited monasteries, ironically not in the US, however. I haven't done any sampling. This summer I might, though, who knows.

I kind of, sort of, dropped out after high school, which I had done badly at. It was just after Woodstock, there was this feeling in the air of there being a whole new kind of life that would open up. But needless to say I discovered that the immediate consequence of dropping out was being required to do a lot of menial work - labouring, cleaning, and the like. Actually one of the formative experiences was going to the unemployment office and being directed to the local Catholic teaching hospital, where I worked as a wardsman and general dogsbody for 7 months. Then I quit and went to a Yoga Ashram, 'seeking enlightenment', which decades later became infamous for horrific sexual abuse by the charismatic young Swami who had been resident teacher. (I still have a vivid memory of him telling me I had 'no self-control' because I wouldn't give up roll-your-own tobacco whilst there; ironic, considering what was to soon unfold. He was jailed for a time, and ultimately drank himself to death, I was told.)

Anyway, long and short, I didn't have a regular occupation until getting a cab license; that is the 'occupation of father' on son's birth certificate (he's now late 20's). It wasn't really until I got the job in the computer shop that I had anything like a career.

But the thing which is bothering me is - well, first the fact that it bothers me. So much for 'serene detachment'. Second, I feel compelled to actually do something, because if I chucked it all in and downsized to a rural area, which I could feasibly do, then I don't think I have the discipline to live a dedicated spiritual life in that setting. For some reason, getting this career stuff sorted out seems like something I have to stick with it, even when it's driving me nuts or seems hopeless.

Isn't every frequent yoga attendee assaulted at least once?

I once went to this like 2 and a half our long one with these travelling yogis that everyone was talking about, but it was so awful. Firstly, just the obviously rehashed, but played as natural or normal banter by him and his wife, like watching a routine, and then at one point he came over to me, I was like doing a runner's lunge, and he like kind of like sat facing me on my knee, and like wrapped his arms around me and was like pulling on my back. I don't think I can continue... too traumatic...

At the time it started, I was blithely unaware of the implications. There had been a family that used to drive up from the City every weekend, which had one young girl, I guess about 16, with whom it become evident that 'Swami-ji' was having relations with. This is the early 1970's, I had never heard of pedophilia and had no idea what 'sex abuse' was. In any case by the time this was happening I had already left, and never went back, save for the odd visit in the ensuing decades. I only heard about it when it became a scandal that was published in their local paper about ten years later, with'Swami-ji' ending up being jailed for carnal knowledge. It is very saddening but also a salutary reminder of the apparently ineradicable association between organised religious movements and sexual predation.

That's hebephilia not pedophilia. I only point that out because lots of 16 year olds are attractive to adult males, generally. Not so many nine year olds...

I don't think it's remotely as terrible, not without qualifying other terrible things, like violence, force cohesion, or whatever.

Now that I look, I see that I was even aiming too low, it's actually ephebophilia, being between 15-19, whereas hebephilia is 11-14. Well, I don't mind being show to not be an expert with these terms.

The last month, I've been 'working' in a Govt. contract in which there is literally zero workload. — Wayfarer

It is so important to find fulfilment in your work as you give so much of your time to it and to see many people living aimlessly, merely justified by material considerations and 'looking good' is actually quite painful to witness. I did that once, working in a job I hated that was so terribly easy that it was difficult getting myself to work, especially since I worked around creeps. You keep on telling yourself that you have bills to pay and you need to learn to deal with it. Now, after finishing my masters, I found work in the community sector, a large Australian NGO and in only six months I was promoted to a specialist role. The pay is not fantastic and sometimes the people are not fantastic either, but the job is fulfilling. When it is fulfilling, you have the energy and the mindset to complete other things in your life, travel, write, philosophise because you are happier as a person. When you live a life where you hate your job, surrounded by moronic people, no matter how much you tell yourself one thing, you will never have the peace of mind to do those activities and ultimately be happy.

That is why I say that for a time it may be better to simply fall behind in your bills and keep on believing that you will get what you want. Nothing good or genuine comes easily, you have to work for it. If you love something enough, you will never give up on it.

Chin up, ol' horse, your not superannuated just yet. :D

actually I will say, nobody in the workplace are creeps, they're generally very nice folks, and considerate. But I really don't think they need what I do. Still I'm now trying to make the best of it, I'm definitely there till June 30 so have to give it a shot. Problems come in all shapes and sizes, I suppose it's preferable to being in a situation where the demands are impossible.

Oh, and I can't afford to be superannuated yet - hence the whole problem!

I used to work for the state govt. and they are allocated funding to spend in particular areas so whether they require it or not, they tend to establish such contracts to purport that the department is functional and the funding necessary as part of its annual reporting. Perhaps use the opportunity to up-skill and do so in a way that will advance the opportunity for you to penetrate the area that you seek to work in? If you can't reach the other side of the river, at least try and build a dinghy.

Hey, good advice, and what I've decided to do.

This is your answer right here: drop out of the work force. Remember your hippy mantra, turn on, tune in, drop out. You've already turned on and tuned in, you now just need to drop out.

The grass and plants are always grateful to get watered. — Bitter Crank

And this is where it's at, become a gardener, it's very rewarding. Hopefully you can afford a plot of land. Not only will you witness your babies (crops) thriving under your care, but everyone in the world has always had the highest respect for those labourers who put food on the table, the farmer. It doesn't take much to produce a lot.

When it is fulfilling, you have the energy and the mindset to complete other things in your life, travel, write, philosophise because you are happier as a person. When you live a life where you hate your job, surrounded by moronic people, no matter how much you tell yourself one thing, you will never have the peace of mind to do those activities and ultimately be happy. — TimeLine

Exactly.

The last month, I've been 'working' in a Govt. contract in which there is literally zero workload. I have turned over a single document and a single PPT. Everyone tells me I'm 'lucky to be getting paid' but it's really not satisfactory.

Anyway, this whole time, I was negotiating for a new role - a 'work from home' job in a leading technology company - design and implement their whole documentation system. Three interviews and an assignment. All looked good, all the feedback was great - but it's a no.

It's one of those 'sliding doors' moments - on one side, a bright future, job security and income, on the other, continuing to look for work, getting further behind on the bills, putting up with long and pointless hours in an office cubicle. I'm a boomer, near official 'retirement age', it's more than likely the last chance of that kind to come along. It came down to me and one other, and it went to the other.

I GUESS this is when the effectiveness, or otherwise, of your practice - your philosophy practice - really becomes evident. If you do have a solid practice, then you will feel a lot of disappointment, but you will be able to keep going - one foot in front of the other, and one day at a time. I guess, all things considered, I have to do that.

But I do need to say, at this point, it really sucks. ;-( — Wayfarer

As far back as I can remember thinking about work and life, I have looked at it this way:

1.) My goal is to constantly, tirelessly, diligently do my life's work. It is not something you retire from like formal employment in formal labor markets.

2.) I may never complete my life's work, but by constantly, tirelessly, diligently working at it I am at least setting the stage for other people to complete it.

3.) Everything that I do--school, relationships, employment, recreation, church activities--is working on my life's work. Formal employment in formal labor markets is enough for only a lucky few people to do their life's work.

4.) Formal employment in formal labor markets may not be available at all times or forever, but there is always other work that can be done to keep progressing towards the goal. Volunteer work. Friendships. Spiritual and intellectual pursuits. Creative pursuits.



What I hear in your words is frustration with capitalist markets.

Fortunately, there are many ways to be productive and make contributions without having to make transactions in capitalist markets.

Fortunately, there are many ways to be productive and make contributions without having to make transactions in capitalist markets. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am indeed also committed to my life's work but it's the 'means of livelihood' that I find challenging.

Would you accept to work for Donald John Trump if he offered you, say, $15,000/month? >:)

But I do need to say, at this point, it really sucks. ;-( — Wayfarer

Apply Murphy's law to anything.
You really wanted the job.
He already has a good job.
Who gets it.
Him.