That's not what I mean by 'bad'. I mean if it encourages (eg by glamorising) harmful attitudes and actions — andrewk
I think it's ridiculous to say that actions in games in any way translate to real life, or that games in any way "encourage" anything outside of playing the game. — Terrapin Station
But people create porn; people objectify through porn. Porn is one of the most straightforward ways to objectify. When a person objectifies another person, they look past that person's individual humanity (their unique, unrepeatableness) and transform their experience of that person into an object of desire; there's a disposable aspect to objectification. On the other hand, a sexual experience that does not objectify any of the participants is one in which the individual humanity, the unique unrepeatablness of each person is upheld and intensified, rather than overlooked. Sex and individuality are profoundly linked, but porn, for instance, makes the sex act impersonal, and not individual. Porn focuses on the sex urge, and not the deeper meaning of what sex symbolizes. The normalization of pornography just leads to deeper social isolation and disconnect from the role sex plays in human intimacy. We live in a world where the carnal is separated from the intimate, because we live in a world of social isolation. That's the irony; true sex means deep individuation, but our society's focus on individuality leads to sexual objectification, not intimacy. — Noble Dust
What exactly would be the mechanics of a porn viewer that does not objectify the actors and their sexuality? — Noble Dust
What's an example of healthy porn use, versus unhealthy use? — Noble Dust
It's not a question of whether one person is addicted and another is not, ultimately. The same principle of objectification underlies the very nature of what porn is, and the function it serves, regardless of how regular porn use is, whether it's compulsive, not compulsive, or whatever. — Noble Dust
Sure, in a way, this is the problem that I have with porn. Just because society may not change anytime soon, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to rail against the depravity of the situation. If we all say "it won't change anytime soon", then it won't. If we all say "it needs to change", then it might. And I'd rather say what seems right, knowing nothing will change, then say what's easier to say, knowing that nothing will change. I'll gladly keep being a pain in everyone's ass on this topic; I'll gladly keep saying things that make you laugh out loud at how ridiculous you think they are. — Noble Dust
I think it's ridiculous to say that actions in games in any way translate to real life, or that games in any way "encourage" anything outside of playing the game. — Terrapin Station
Playing a game is a compartment which has rules and regulations. A classroom is another compartment which has rules and regulations. Our bedroom is a third compartment. A cubicle at work is a fourth compartment... and so on. We occupy many compartments, each with its own rules and regulations. — Bitter Crank
Just bandying around terms like "objectification" doesn't help. Why is this supposedly wrong? One has a sexual desire, one finds an object for that desire, masturbates, ejaculates, and the desire is satisfied. Where is the wrongness? In this context, I see none. Outside of this context, I can envisage it in certain situations. So, ultimately, it seems to me, this is about having the right attitude or mindset. It is about appropriateness. It is a people problem about personal responsibility, and porn is just being scapegoated, in much the same way that alcohol or videogames or rock music has been scapegoated. — Sapientia
Something that I think should be mentioned is the Sexual Revolution which unfolded during the last 100 years, culminating in the 1960's. — Wayfarer
But no matter what the act, if all involved are willing participants, then there can't be anything wrong with whatever they do, as 'consent' is the sole criteria. Is that right? — Wayfarer
But I think the groundwork was laid much earlier. 'If God is dead, everything is permissible' was one major factor. Insofar as the sexual act was previously only to take place within the confines of 'holy matrimony', then the 'death of God' removes that foundation, at least as far as the secular state is concerned. — Wayfarer
sexuality was something to be celebrated — Wayfarer
So I know what I say about it will generally be regarded as out-dated and embarrassingly mistaken - so I won't spend a lot more time debating it. Just wanted to get that point out in the open. — Wayfarer
Then you too are guilty of a No True Scotsman — Sapientia
That's just an invented notion which suits your personal feelings. — Sapientia
The question that concerns me is how the notion of "higher purpose" could be made coherent in the absence of the presumption of a personal God. — John
You don’t recognise sex and porn are always about other people.
Other people are actually what we think of first in any instance of pornography or sex— “Their hot.” “I’d like to fuck them.” "Watching them have sex gets me off so well.” — TheWillowOfDarkness
The idea sex or pornography is about some abstraction of individual desire, like just “getting off” or “pure physical pleasure” is a myth. — TheWillowOfDarkness
I've been called worse. — Wayfarer
Isn't everything? — Wayfarer
Female sex workers are no more exploited than truck drivers, custodians, roofers, secretaries, sales clerks, and factory workers are exploited. — Bitter Crank
But there are already concepts for such things, and it is a fallacy to personally adapt them to conveniently rule out perceived faults of which you disapprove, so that sex doesn't "truly" count as sex unless it fits this model, or ideal, of yours. — Sapientia
(and this is only assuming innocence, which suggests the sort of gleeful cluelesness that those in favor of porn on a general level, like Sapienta profess). Simple common sense... — Noble Dust
I'm commenting on social attitudes towards sexuality and porn from a conservative point of view. The views I express are not exclusive to myself, they are not 'my idiosyncratic view'. — Wayfarer
It's a bit like the objectification I just took Sapientia to task for... — TheWillowOfDarkness
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