@Wayfarer

:clap:

What a post! Superb!

Thanks for the link to Mullah Nasruddin (bookmarked it for later).

The belief in the link betwixt madness & the divine has a long history. For an obviou reason - theists are maniacs - this idea of theia mania has been suppressed in most religions.

I recall reading a definition of delusion in my college years and I'll reproduce it here as best as I can recall it.

Delusion: Belief that one refuses to give up

1. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary

and

2. Is not in keeping with the religion and culture one professes or is a member of.

A very subtle way of denouncing faith if you ask me: You're a lunatic if you believe x even if it's wrong, but perfectly "normal" if x is a doctrine in your faith.

Thank you. I'm a bit overwhelmed. That verse from Revelation has played a significant part in my life. Or actually the entire Philadelphian letter. It was a dreamvision I had, that was confirmed 3 times in real life in like a week's time. That was 11 years ago and the last 11 years have been CRAZY. Thank God I'm off medication, off psychiatry, off therapies. I would love to write more about 'psychospiritual development'. Perhaps we can share some of our mystical experiences here then. Love, Kevin

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Hi Kevin. It's great to make this connection with you.

The forum is fairly averse to discussions of personal mystical experience, but I think the lounge rules will allow for it.

So here we go:

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13035/post-your-personal-mystical-or-neurotic-psychotic-experiences-here


I had a near-psychotic spiritual illumination 20 years ago, and I think it would be fruitful to try to set it out. I'll take it up when I have the time. :smile:

Or actually the entire Philadelphian letter. — Kevin Tan

Can you link me to this document? Thanks! Google gives me puzzling results.

yeah I agree

Write down My words, and send them to the messenger of the church in Philadelphia. “These are the words of the holy One, the true One, and the One who possesses the key of David, which opens the possibilities so that no one can shut them. The One who closes all options so that no one can open:

8 “I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door, which no one can shut. I have done this because you have limited strength, yet you have obeyed My word and have not denied My name. 9 Watch, and I will make those of the congregation of Satan—those who call themselves ‘Jews’ but are not because they lie—come before you penitent, falling at your feet. Then they will know how much I have loved you. 10 Because you have obeyed My instructions to endure and be patient, I will protect you from the time of trial which will come upon the whole earth and put everyone in it to the test. 11 I will soon return. Hold tight to what you have so that no one can take away your victor’s wreath.

12 “As for the one who conquers through faithfulness even unto death, I will plant that person as a pillar in the temple of My God, and that person will never have to leave the presence of God. Moreover, I will inscribe this person with the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, New Jerusalem—which descends out of heaven from My God—and My own new name.

God’s intention for the world is this: “I will be your God, and you will be my people.” This is fulfilled by those who are faithful to Him.

13 “Let the person who is able to hear, listen to and follow what the Spirit proclaims to all the churches.”

Gotcha, I missed the reference. Thanks! :blush:

:up: :ok:

The entire Revelation - nothing like it to my knowledge in the history of prophetic lit. Incomparable awakened energy. Every other poet-prophet should be jealous.

It's my favorite poem. (I call it a poem...)

I find it an utterly confusing text! But I hope we can find each other in our understanding of this Apocalypse some day

Here's a place to talk about it. The symbology is confusing as hell but in the context of a psychological reading, the general thrust and arc are non-complex.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13037/psychology-a-psychological-reading-of-johns-revelation

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Maybe I did not understand your intent with this discussion, or maybe you did not understand my comment. — ArielAssante

I get that an allegorical reading of the Bible is a sensible approach. But - as something of a mystic myself - the weird words of the prophets I receive in a different light.

Also:

From the OP:

I'd like to take a look at the link between madness and mysticism. I get that in some cases these reports of odd behavior may have a non-literal application. I'd like to overlook that fact for the moment and take the prophets (and others) at their word. — ZzzoneiroCosm

(bolds in the original)

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

That is, what society does not understand it labels madness. — ArielAssante

This rings true. The Mad Pride movement is an effort to reenvision the relation of the sane and the mad.

The opening quote for this thread is wonderful. But I'm curious, what are the relationships between mystics and shamans? I would wager that there is little difference between a mystic and a shaman, except for perhaps time and place.

Both of these characters/archetypes (the mystic and the shaman) are truly insane, but that's their superpower. A true mystic/shaman will have gone through an initiation, wherein they encountered and transmuted their dis-ease into a whole/healed strength or boon. This is the journey of the hero, which is the monomyth; also a Joseph Campbell concept.

IMO, there is a direct relationship between (what mainstream society labels as) "madness" and the mystic/shaman disposition. Thank you for the relevant and timely post on a subject that is of the upmost importance to our world today, with so many mystics stepping into their own power(s).

This is a societal link. That is, what society does not understand it labels madness. — ArielAssante

Best not to overstate the case. Sometimes it is indeed madness, with risks to self and others. Also, what society doesn't understand it is quite capable of elevating and worshiping. Hence god/s.

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

If the human race survives, future men will look back on our enlightened epoch as a veritable Age of Darkness. The laugh’s on us. They will see that what we call ‘schizophrenia’ was one of the forms in which, often through quite ordinary people, the light began to break in the cracks in our all-too-closed minds. — Laing - The Politics of Experience

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

This rings true. The Mad Pride movement is an effort to reenvision the relation of the sane and the mad. — ZzzoneiroCosm

I'm not opposed to psychiatry and psychology. Indeed, it has benefited me a lot. But the idea that these are absolute truths like the laws of physics is just preposterous. And absolutely outrageous

I think of psychology as more of an art than a science.

Thank you for the relevant and timely post on a subject that is of the upmost importance to our world today, with so many mystics stepping into their own power(s). — Bret Bernhoft

I'm glad you experience it too. Talked to my parents about mysticism for the first time yesterday. My dad looked happy, as if he had waited for this affirmation for a long time. My mother wanted to know what I specifically meant. She's very rational. But it was good.

There's definitely a difference between my psychoses and mystical experiences. My first psychosis was a disaster, it was traumatic for a lot of people and there was nothing mystical about it. Complete insanity.
My second psychosis was also insane, but there was at least some divine aspect to it. And parts of it I cherish. The third psychosis was never diagnosed. But again complete insanity. God it took me so long to recover. I'm glad I'm not in therapy, on medication or institutionalized anymore.