I don't believe in saints, but that's me, I could be wrong, it's a terrible tragedy. I just don't trust people that over-advertise their righteousness and benevolence. And a sinner trying to be (sincerely) good always impresses me. I have soft spot for redemption — Merkwurdichliebe
Those are my favorite words to use here on tpf. — Merkwurdichliebe
I wouldn't say they're my favorites too, but my general ignorance doesn't permit me to abandon their use. — Agent Smith
If I were to give philosophical advice, I would say: lean into it... embrace your ignorance and cultivate the use of such sophisticated terminologies — Merkwurdichliebe
What I noticed intitially, was that there was no mention of ethics or morality in the entire video. So im curious where you made the connection that, anything the monkeys did, demonstrated their behavior to be of an ethical nature. — Merkwurdichliebe
Any animal that interacts socially will have its own unique brand of morality. But as humans, we can only relate to human morality. That's the only morality that matters to us. Part of human morality is judging the morals of others. We will always judge animals to have something which falls short of the human standard. — Bird-Up
Seems like an ethical situation when the monkey starts thinking about abstract ideas of what should or shouldn't be done. And if such thoughts aren't passing through its head, then what do you think is the source of its anger? — Bird-Up
I did not catch the part when the monkey was thinking (about abstract ideas of what should or shouldn't be done). Those thoughts never came close to occurring to me. I think the source of its anger was that it wanted to eat grapes over cucumber. I agree with the monkey. Grapes are tastier than cucumbers. — Merkwurdichliebe
that was hilarious when the dumb monkey threw the blasted cucumber at the scientist — Merkwurdichliebe
Isn't jealousy an inherently ethical notion? How can you feel that you are getting less than you deserve, without first having ideas about what is deserved?
Seems to be about exactly when the monkey gets angry, and the extent of how quickly the anger escalates. Strikes me as more than dissatisfaction with cucumber — Bird-Up
Ha yeah I like the part where he rattles the wall of his cage like a prisoner. — Bird-Up
Sure, we can say ethics is based on ethical ideas, but it begs the question: what's the basis of the ethical ideas? Moral imperatives aren't merely arbitrary propositions stored in the memory bank. No one needs to instruct you to behave in ways that contribute to self-preservation, nor apply this vicariously. These are grounded in feelings, not in words.My point is that, at its core, ethics depends on and is based in a belief in ethical ideas, not in feelings like empathy. — Merkwurdichliebe
All feelings lead us in intellectual directions. Words like "love" and "hate" have no meaning at all without the experience of the feeling. But sure, all feelings are valid and influence our intellectual directions. Hate and fear lead people to rationalize killing in war or for self-preservation.if feelings were the basis for morality, feelings of fear, or love are as equally valid?
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain why so many people and even scientists believe humans are animals and describe them as such: It's the narrow view that characterizes them. They all consider one only part of the human being: the physical/physiological one. Indeed,no other animals are human but humans. That alone puts humans in a unique place in the animal kingdom, one that may have exclusive access to ethics — Merkwurdichliebe
Sure, we can say ethics is based on ethical ideas, but it begs the question: what's the basis of the ethical ideas? — Relativist
Moral imperatives aren't merely arbitrary propositions stored in the memory bank. No one needs to instruct you to behave in ways that contribute to self-preservation, nor apply this vicariously. These are grounded in feelings, not in words.
Describe a scenario whereby ungrounded abstract reasoning leads to the golden rule. My position is that the relevant abstract reasoning is grounded in feelings. You disagree, and indicated the grounding is nothing more than abstract reasoning itself - no other ground.Sure, we can say ethics is based on ethical ideas, but it begs the question: what's the basis of the ethical ideas?
— Relativist
A creature capable of abstract reasoning. — Merkwurdichliebe
Circular.Conceptions of good and evil are ... grounded in a knowledge of good and evil — Merkwurdichliebe
My position is that ... the grounding is nothing more than ... ground. — Relativist
Grapes are tastier than cucumbers. — Bird-Up
Fresh cucumbers Worldwide sales for cucumbers exports by country totaled US$2.84 billion in 2020 — Google
:chin: — Agent Smith
My position is that ... the grounding is nothing more than ... ground.
— Relativist
You make quite a tautology here. — Merkwurdichliebe
Why are we still eating cauliflower in 2022? — Bird-Up
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