Yes, and it would be a good idea to include the definition challenged by the philosophical inquiry. — Nickolasgaspar

There's no challenge, just a thought experiment and a discussion.

Contrary to forum mores, philosophy, the love of wisdom, is the obverse of warfare.

Sure. I only pointed out that your experiment and questions can be addressed by the common definition of the term...plus it would put us all in the same page since for every word there are usually more than one common usage.

HEELLLLLLP (me/him/her/it)!!! = Prayer

That's the idea. :smile:

That's the idea. :smile: — ZzzoneiroCosm

Simple! I'm not going to prayer meetings anymore. My ears hurt from all the screaming! :snicker:

You must have strayed into a den of Pentacostals: Where a chorus of HELLLLPs can ascend to tongues of fire.

:fire: :hearts: :fire:

Don't burn the baby.

:smile:

That's the idea. :smile:
— ZzzoneiroCosm — Agent Smith

By the way, when you quote a forum member, if you highlight your selection and use the quote tool (it should appear somewhere on your screen - alternately, it's the cartoon bubble above the text-entry box) the name of the poster you're quoting will appear in red in your post and the poster will receive a notification. If the poster's name appears in black in your post - no notification. :smile:

:up: :up:

Cover me
when I run
Cover me
through the fire
Something knocked me
out the trees
Now I'm on my knees ... — Shock the Monkey

:monkey: :pray:

Always loved his unique voice.

I'm curious: you call yourself an ekstatic or ecstatic (I forget): I'm curious how you go about it. PM is fine if you'd prefer not to advertise. Silence is always fine vis-a-vis the merely curious.

I have my own pentacostal techniques and (say) hebephreebies but lately prefer the peace of zen. At times un-conated tongues of fire surprise me.

There's a kind of zen-pentacost hybrid I bump into too.

I'm slow; to compound my woes, I ain't steady. :snicker: Neither a hare, nor a tortoise!

Cover me
when I run
Cover me
through the fire
Something knocked me
out the trees
Now I'm on my knees ... — Shock the Monkey

:up:

I have my own pentacostal techniques and (say) hebephreebies but lately prefer the peace of zen. At times un-conated tongues of fire surprise me. — ZzzoneiroCosm

My year and a half of Zen back in the early '80s really had helped me with my flashbacks :sparkle: later in that decade.

As for me today, Zzz..., this sketch from an old post

[ ... ] five ecstatic practices whereby a person (yoga-like) suspends her ego briefly, in effect, 'standing outside' of her quotidian, anxious & bored, self with more (sudden) awareness of others (i.e. more-than-herself). These five ecstasies are Sleeping, Playing, Praying, Meditating & Contemplating. — 180 Proof

For me 'philosophizing' (i.e. reflective inquiry/practice (praxis) + dialectics off/on-line) is how I contemplate daily. It's been decades, however, since I gave up praying or meditating. Aside from strictly regulating my sleep cycle, my other reliable ecstasies include 'walking daily' and 'listening to jazz' while e.g. preparing-eating meals (alone @home) & cleaning / rearranging my place.

you're definitely not slow :smile:

:clap:

Transcendence, the world demands it, on a daily basis as far as I can tell. 9 times outta 10, we I fall flat on my face; being selfish (sensu amplo) is hardwired, instinctual, irreresistable, but we I must try, oui monsieur?

I conceive of Play is one of five ecstatic practices whereby a person (yoga-like) suspends her ego briefly, in effect, 'standing outside' of her quotidian, anxious & bored, self with more (sudden) awareness of others (i.e. more-than-herself). These five ecstasies are Sleeping, Playing, Praying, Meditating & Contemplating. — 180 Proof

Is the word ecstasy an exaggeration here?

Are you defining ecstasy as ego-suspension?


Play is fun and connective and can induce an ego-eliminative flow state. But I don't think of play as ecstatic.

Sleeping can be ecstasy in the lucid dream state....

Contemplating — 180 Proof

Contemplation, philosophical or otherwise, can be wholly engrossing, expansive and rewarding. But still to my ear ecstatic has an exaggerated ring.

ecstatic — 180 Proof

Or are you thinking more etymologically?


from ek "out" (see ex-) + histanai "to place, cause to stand," from PIE root *sta- "to stand, make or be firm."

ecstatic practices — 180 Proof

More definition one than definition two?...


noun
1.
an overwhelming feeling of great happiness or joyful excitement.
"there was a look of ecstasy on his face"

2.
an emotional or religious frenzy or trance-like state, originally one involving an experience of mystic self-transcendence.

ecstatic
— 180 Proof

Or are you thinking more etymologically?


from ek "out" (see ex-) + histanai "to place, cause to stand," from PIE root *sta- "to stand, make or be firm." — ZzzoneiroCosm

Most interesting! — Ms. Marple

In ecstacy we step outside of ourselves!

In ecstacy we step outside of ourselves! — Agent Smith

(Brief) suspension of ego. :up:

ecstatic
— 180 Proof

Or are you thinking more etymologically? — ZzzoneiroCosm

Yes.

Gotcha :cool:

(Brief) suspension of ego. :up: — 180 Proof

Self-abnegation! :fire:

Did you ever come across the psychiatric "disorder" known as Cotard's delusion? It's defined by what has been termed "nihilistic" delusions. A typical symptom is the patient vehemently denying their own existence: "I don't exist" i.e. "I'm dead."

Anatta (no self) in Buddhism is also a similar sentiment.

Transcendence via self-negation: To leap beyond what I am I must reject what I am.

Self-abnegation! — Agent Smith

No. :rofl:

I think prayers have only to do with the supernatural. I mean, it's considered prayer when we are requesting help from a supernatural being.

I mean, it's considered prayer when we are requesting help from a supernatural being. — elucid

Except when a baby or adult requests help from an unknown source. Nothing supernatural in that equation. The source qua unknown could just as well be natural.

Self-abnegation!
— Agent Smith
No. :rofl: — 180 Proof

:chin: :snicker: What then?

Interesting thought. I would consider any communication not directed at a human/domesticated-animal to be a generic prayer. I would also imagine early humans walked a blurry line between god(s) and nature. It could be a desperate cry to nature itself, but I think that still falls under the description of "prayer".

I would also agree that humanity's relationship to Allah/Yahweh is essentially one of parental nature. Even though other gods may not have followed the same pattern.

A prayer, it seems, is basically two things:

1. A request for assistance. When one embarks on some kinda a project, small or big, one realizes that no matter how good the planning, things could go wrong for various reasons. Thus we pray for assistance to the gods to ensure the success of our enterprise.

2. A request for protection. The late Ray Liotta said in an interview that he wasn't really sure if he believed in god(s) but, he went on to say, found himself praying during his trials and tribulations of which he had a fair share.

Thus prayer is an acknowledgement that

1. We aren't fully in control of our destinies (assistance).

2. Our safety and security isn't guaranteed, nor is timely help on the way from our brethren all the time (protection).

Why aren't we at the helm, in the driver's seat completely? Other people and the universe itself aren't necessarily aligned to your goals, are they now? Though protection is somewhat similar in nature to assistance, you can tell the difference betwixt them by looking at the anxiety level. You're not as desperate in one as you are in the other. Interesting, oui? :snicker: