the young student Max Planck was advised not to study theoretical physics because there was little left to be discovered. — Art48
Any material object can be understood in an infinity of ways, from an infinity of perspectives, that make it really infinite. — Angelo Cannata
I think you are making the same mistake I already said:...are just manifestations... — universeness
By reducing the fenomenon of lightning to what science is able to understand about it, you are making exactly the same identical error that you mentioned
the young student Max Planck was advised not to study theoretical physics because there was little left to be discovered.
— Art48
The reasoning to be made is simple: if already happened in the past that people thought they had exhausted what was there to be known about certain things, while now we see that actually they had no idea of the infinite iceberg hidden behind what they considered all that we need to know, what makes you think that the same cannot happen in the present and in the future, even about the same things? — Angelo Cannata
I accept your opinion, as your opinion and I am sure you return that accommodation. But that which manifests in reality and that which are mere manifestations of a curious human imagination regarding that which is currently misunderstood or is currently unknown, should never be conflated.I think you are making the same mistake I already said: — Angelo Cannata
Until we know for certain the limits of the natural universe, we cannot know if something is beyond its limits. — Art48
↪unenlightened Not sure what your point is. — Tom Storm
“Supernatural” means above and beyond the natural world. It’s a valid, internally consistent concept. It’s also an empty, useless concept because we do not know the limits of the natural. — Art48
Better to notice the limits of ourselves and be content with some vagueness in our talk, because one cannot fit the world exactly in one's mind. — unenlightened
But then, let's say that ghosts are real. I would then see no reason to say they are outside/beyond nature. We have magnetic fields and neutrinos passing through us and now we (or scientific consensus) find that ghosts are real, but we should put them in another box: supernatural. To me they would be yet another phenomenon of the real. Just because some people have now decided they are real is not a reason to give them another category. Some things are hard to demonstrate to some people's satisfaction, and this would be another one. Some native Africans and later a couple of researchers were convinced that elephants communicated over long, long distances. Science did not accept this. Then later scientists in general did. Perhaps telepathy say, is like this (in terms of us not knowing, not that the mechanism is the same). The elephants did not have a supernatural power. What they did was something that some people could not be convinced was real, until it could be.To deny meaning to "supernatural" is equivalent to claiming that "all is one" (all is natural), which, ironically, is very much the cry of the mystic. — unenlightened
Tom storm and universeness suffer from enlightenment. It's highly infectious and most people here have it. — unenlightened
What a bizarre and somewhat illogical concoction.The ancient regime had a triple concept at its root of God, Man, and Nature. (Or the supernatural, the human, and the natural.) Having a three legged philosophy is always a good idea for stability, — unenlightened
Thus if 'supernatural' refers to nothing, 'natural' refers to everything, and both terms lose their meaning — unenlightened
“Supernatural” as an empty, useless term. — OP
It is not possible to refer to nothing. — universeness
'the supernatural does not exist' or 'god does not exist,' just like anyone else is prone to emotive commentary but I will normally reduce that to something less emotive such as 'well, I am strongly convinced that the supernatural or/and gods don't exist.' If you push further then I will state my 'level of conviction indicator,' as the by now, well-known and emotive, 99.9% — universeness
New Theology has no use for the concept of the supernatural — Art48
sounds logical, but we know it's impossible to reach the ends of the universe and fathom beyond smallest thing which is singularity.Until we know for certain the limits of the natural universe, we cannot know if something is beyond its limits — Art48
If you define "miracle" as something that only God can do then you might have a point.Are the Jesus miracles doable with modern (bio)tech?
For starters...
Healing lepers: Dapsone + Clofazamine + Rifampicin
Curing blindness: LASIK/Cataract surgery/Corneal transplants — Agent Smith
I simply suggest that that which is supernatural, has never been evidenced in such a way that it stands up to scientific scrutiny. — universeness
The natural order of things more or less maintains that EVERYTHING that exists has to obey certain laws. If something was able to do things that broke these laws it would be something beyond the way we currently understand them. However even if we didn't understand how such phenomenon worked it wouldn't necessarily mean that they are "supernatural".“Supernatural” means above and beyond the natural world. It’s a valid, internally consistent concept. It’s also an empty, useless concept because we do not know the limits of the natural. We do not possess the means of verifying that some phenomenon is, in fact, above and beyond the natural world.
We have yet to discover all that is possible. We may believe phenomena such as lightning, walking on water, riding a winged horse, or rising from the dead are phenomena beyond nature, but we cannot know it. In the past, we might have believed someone in Africa could not have a real-time conversation with someone in South America. We might have believed that we would never be able to ask a tiny handheld box for directions home. Today, mobile phones routinely perform both tasks.
Old Theology ontologies often include supernatural beings and places: Gods and demons, heaven and hell, Bodhisattvas and nirvana. New Theology has no use for the concept of the supernatural. Until we know for certain the limits of the natural universe, we cannot know if something is beyond its limits. — Art48
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