If I understand correctly, it is well established that quantum mechanics only applies at the subatomic, atomic, and small molecule scale. — Clarky
When Lao Tzu asked that kind of question, it was metaphysics — Clarky
The word metaphysics should be eliminated from discussions of science. — jgill
Newton's determinism was based on God as the supreme lawgiver. — Jackson
There was nothing of the kind in the Tao Te Ching. — Wayfarer
Are you saying the Ancient Chinese didn't have metaphysics? — Clarky
Tao Te Ching is not metaphysics per se. — Wayfarer
As the Tao Te Ching is amenable to vastly divergent interpretations, it makes sense that some folks call it metaphysics, others not so much. — ZzzoneiroCosm
It's a notoriously difficult word to define. I grant there's a vernacular definition of metaphysics which denotes a wide range of ideas from many different traditions and cultures, but I try to keep in mind the definition specific to European culture (e.g. here.) — Wayfarer
As I said, I think this is too big a disagreement to be addressed here. — Clarky
What could the Tao Te Ching be if it's not metaphysics? — Clarky
The Tao-te Ching presented a way of life intended to restore harmony and tranquillity to a kingdom racked by widespread disorders. It was critical of the unbridled wantonness of self-seeking rulers and was disdainful of social activism based on the type of abstract moralism and mechanical propriety characteristic of Confucian ethics. The Dao of the Tao-te Ching has received a wide variety of interpretations because of its elusiveness and mystical overtones, and it has been a basic concept in both philosophy and religion. In essence, it consists of “nonaction” (wuwei), understood as no unnatural action rather than complete passivity. It implies spontaneity, noninterference, letting things take their natural course: “Do nothing and everything is done.” Chaos ceases, quarrels end, and self-righteous feuding disappears because the Dao is allowed to flow unchallenged and unchallenging. Everything that is comes from the inexhaustible, effortless, invisible, and inaudible Way, which existed before heaven and earth. By instilling in the populace the principle of Dao, the ruler precludes all cause for complaint and presides over a kingdom of great tranquillity. — Encyclopedia Brittanica
The word ‘metaphysics’ is notoriously hard to define. ...The word ‘metaphysics’ is derived from a collective title of the fourteen books by Aristotle that we currently think of as making up Aristotle's Metaphysics. Aristotle himself did not know the word. (He had four names for the branch of philosophy that is the subject-matter of Metaphysics: ‘first philosophy’, ‘first science’, ‘wisdom’, and ‘theology’.) At least one hundred years after Aristotle's death, an editor of his works (in all probability, Andronicus of Rhodes) titled those fourteen books “Ta meta ta phusika”—“the after the physicals” or “the ones after the physical ones”—the “physical ones” being the books contained in what we now call Aristotle's Physics. The title was probably meant to warn students of Aristotle's philosophy that they should attempt Metaphysics only after they had mastered “the physical ones”, the books about nature or the natural world—that is to say, about change, for change is the defining feature of the natural world. — SEP
Richard Conn Henry, The Mental Universe
— Wayfarer
Insufferably smug baloney. Mr. Henry doesn't understand the difference between metaphysics and physics either.
and Bernard D'Espagnat.
— Wayfarer
Mr. D'Espagnat is also confused about metaphysics. — Clarky
Richard Conn Henry (born 7 March 1940[1]) is an Academy Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University, author of one book and over 200 publications on the topics of astrophysics and various forms of astronomy including optical, radio, ultraviolet, and X-ray. He reports being part of a team that discovered "vastly more baryons than had ever before been found in the universe".[2] He is also cited in the effort to recategorize Pluto as a dwarf planet.[3][4]
Bernard d'Espagnat (22 August 1921 – 1 August 2015) was a French theoretical physicist, philosopher of science, and author, best known for his work on the nature of reality.[1][2] Wigner-d'Espagnat inequality is partially named after him.
D'Espagnat obtained his Ph.D. from the Sorbonne at the Institut Henri Poincaré under the guidance of Louis de Broglie. He was a researcher at the Centre National de Recherche Scientifique CNRS, 1947-57. During this period he also worked with Enrico Fermi in Chicago, 1951–52, and on a research project led by Niels Bohr at the Institute in Copenhagen, 1953-54. He then pursued his scientific career as the first theoretical physicist at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva, 1954-59.[5][6]
No metaphysics (archai) before Plato? But "Platonism" developed out of – in response to – Thales, Anaximander, Pythagorus, Permenides, Heraclitus, Democritus et al aka "the Presocratics". Maybe you meant Orphism instead?Metaphysics developed out [of] Platonism... — Wayfarer
So philosophical taoism (daojia) is just "poetry"? :roll:Tao Te Ching is not metaphysics per se — Wayfarer
No metaphysics (archai) before Plato? — 180 Proof
They're physicists, not philosophers. — Clarky
it's mistaken to take the Tao Te Ching as an exemplar of the subject of metaphysics — Wayfarer
You stand corrected, — 180 Proof
So philosophical taoism (daojia) is just "poetry" — 180 Proof
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