Science does not insist 'natural things need not be caused'
Sentient life did have a cause on this planet, science does not know exactly how that happened yet but perhaps they will in time. Many in science argue against the idea that the natural universe needs a FIRST CAUSE. — universeness
Which is why things which are not caused can't be empirically proved? — SpaceDweller
I am not convinced 'nature' cares about the 'state' or dissatisfied status of the philosophical or even the scientific mind. — universeness
Philosophers will simply have to 'suck up' their feelings of repugnancy until science can provide them with more of the knowledge they seek. — universeness
You mean like a coincidence? — Metaphysician Undercover
I am not talking about whether nature cares, I'm talking about whether human beings care — Metaphysician Undercover
if we agree the natural must have a cause, this cause must necessarily be something other than natural, i.e. the supernatural. — Metaphysician Undercover
In your nature/man/God division, the above distinguishes between nature and man, but not God. — Hanover
The point here is that we do need to talk about elves and angels if we want to maintain the natural/supernatural distinction. — Hanover
Natural must have a cause, yes, but the Universe does not need a FIRST CAUSE. So no supernatural required. — universeness
I see no reason why the theists can declare their god eternal and not in need of a first cause but science cannot offer 'eternal energy,' based on posits such as the Penrose bounce as also not in need of a first cause. — universeness
If the universe is natural then it must have a cause. — Metaphysician Undercover
So if you insist on a cause for THIS Universe then the answer is, a previous universe and that can regress eternally.
If you insist on a trigger for that cycle then I can offer you a mindless, no longer existent, spark, as opposed to any still existent divine spark. — universeness
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