Then what is it that suffers?However, this realization, speaking only for myself, doesn't diminish the suffering I have to bear. I don't feel better about someone belittling me in public just because I happen to know that I am in illusion, an accident of circumstances, having no real essence and so on. In short, there is no self, doesn't necessarily imply there is no suffering. — Agent Smith
If I break my arm, I am aware of the pain. In being aware of the pain, I am aware of my injury. You seem to be saying that I suffer because I am aware of the pain, not because I am in pain. To say that when the body is suffering no one is suffering, are you saying that you are not your body? What is it that you are referring to when you say, "you"? Are you referring to your body, brain, mind, soul, or what?So, you think that suffering can exist without awareness of it? I don’t think so. I think that suffering is possible exclusively in proportion to awareness: if awareness is 100, suffering is 100, if 50, 50, if awareness is 0, suffering is 0. The medical practice of anaestesia is scientific evidence of it. So, there is absolutely no difference between “actual suffering” and “awareness of suffering”. Suffering without awareness can produce body reactions, but these body reactions are not suffering: when only the body is suffering, nobody is suffering: when doctors are operating your body and you are totally under anaestesia, nobody is suffering. We can see that animals have degree of awareness as well and it is possible to practice anaestesia on animals as well. This seems to me scientific evidence hard to deny. — Angelo Cannata
Then what is it that suffers? — Harry Hindu
When I say “I”, I am referring to my subjective experience of feeling “I”, that, since it is subjective, is impossible to prove, otherwise it would become objective. So, I cannot say that I am my body, because this would make the meaning of “I” something objective.To say that when the body is suffering no one is suffering, are you saying that you are not your body? What is it that you are referring to when you say, "you"? Are you referring to your body, brain, mind, soul, or what? — Harry Hindu
I would say i psychoanalyzed us, we humans, I wouldn't know your psychology from Schrödinger's cat's. Or is that cats'.You psychoanalyzed me señor! I'm most obliged. — Agent Smith
A weak person, who is afraid of all kinds of suffering or violence, will be overly protective of others. — M777
I would say i psychoanalyzed us, we humans, I wouldn't know your psychology from Schrödinger's cat's. Or is that cats'. — Bylaw
You misjudge me. I'm not looking for an award. I'm looking for an answer.Then what is it that suffers?
— Harry Hindu
And the good question award goes to none other than Harry Hindu! — Agent Smith
It seems to me that suffering is the awareness of being in pain. I'm not sure if any of it is voluntary. We have an injury, we have pain and we have an awareness of the injury via pain. Pain is the information while we are the informed and the injury is what we are informed of. There should be a difference in behavior between a p-zombie burning its hand on a hot stove vs. a human burning its hand on a hot stove because the p-zombie would never be informed its hand is burning on the hot stove.So you use "suffering" and "pain" interchangeably yet the latter is involuntary and the former is voluntary. Are the Stoics, for example, mistaken that 'we suffer from how we deal with pain' and not principly from pain itself? — 180 Proof
You misjudge me. I'm not looking for an award. I'm looking for an answer. — Harry Hindu
The being suffers and it manifests that in a lot of various ways. What other evidence shoulld we expect?we have no evidence that somebody is suffering inside a body showing alarm signs of suffering — Angelo Cannata
Aren't virus attacks on computers acts of violence, esp. malware? Shouldn't we protect them from such attacks?Nobody would say that we should protect computers from violence — Angelo Cannata
Who/what am I? — Agent Smith
IME, you / we are the kind of What which deludes itself that it's also a Who in order to deny to itself that it's nothing but a (strange looping) What. :eyes:Who/what am I? — Agent Smith
IME, you / we are the kind of what which deludes itself that it's also a who in order to deny to itself that it's nothing but a (strange looping) what. :eyes: — 180 Proof
The self then is an ethical entity. Nice! — Agent Smith
It looks as though, apart from ethics, the self is as good as nonexistent - a stone falls, a book falls, we fall (for gravity there is no self, re anatta). — Agent Smith
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