I actually do not understand the idea we have no free will. — Jackson
This is the reason why posted the Sam Harris video, to help you understand what is actually being addressed here. Sam Harris gives a pretty thorough explanation of the process you think of as free will or choice. Did you watch it? Take your time, and think about it, there's no hurry. — punos
Of course.. that's why you don't understand what is even being discussed here. I won't waste your time or mine anymore because you obviously just want to believe what you just want to believe at all costs. That in itself is interesting to me.. human nature got to love it. — punos
You made no argument and did not address my comment. — Jackson
Neither free will nor determinism adequately describes the human situation. Both options in fact cling to kinds of determinism.In essence my point is that free will is illusory. I — punos
determinism is based on a preconceived notion of the self or the world. — Joshs
Alternatives to the freedom vs determinism
binary assert that while we are determined by our history, both personal , biological and social, these don’t dictate future behavior in a strictly causal way. — Joshs
What are these alternatives called? And again what is the basic concept in these alternatives that enable free will? How does that happen, is there an alternative to determinism and indeterminate randomness or chaos? Is there a third or fourth option that i'm not aware of? — punos
I guess it does , but doesnt it substitute probabilistic for deterministic measurement?
— Joshs
Yes. Which is always how I've lived my life. The deterministic model never made sense to — Jackson
If free will exists , then does evil exist?
— Joshs
Evil is a theological concept. — Jackson
So is free will.
— Joshs
Which is why I do not find debates about free will very enlightening. — Jackson
At any point in this chain had free will agents emerged then it would have disrupted the entire enterprise of higher order complexification. Things would deviate from the main pattern of evolution and fall into eventual catastrophic failure. Evolution is still doing it's work on us and we are not the final product, we are still larval at this stage, and any free will interference would compound into abnormal and imbalanced systems. — punos
Can this process of biological and cultural complexification be modeled in terms of the deterministically causal motions of objects in space (evolutionary arrangement and rearrangement of molecular patterns)? — Joshs
Yes, anything above the quantum level is classical and deterministic. At least that's how i see it. — punos
Doesn't determinism imply that that exact end state of the universe needs to be a particular way and thus a particular trajectory is needed? — TiredThinker
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