International relations are a two way street. — ssu

No they're not, not for great powers anyway. And the fact you would use the United States as an example of why they would be is ridiculous. There's not a modern country in the world whose unilateral interventionist policies have created more death and destruction than the United States'.

The famous hypothetical China-Mexico alliance. Well, ask yourself first just why would Mexico want to have Chinese to protect them? The Zimmerman telegraph didn't change their views...even if then US-Mexican relations were a bit problematic. Or their reasons for doing this don't matter here...right??? — ssu

Of course they don't. You're avoiding the question: how would the United States react?

And we all know how they would react - with hostility.

Yet US doesn't treat Mexico as Russia treats Ukraine. — ssu

If they were about to join into a hostile military alliance they certainly would.

How did the United States react to Cuba getting into bed with the USSR? By calling it an existential threat and threatening nuclear war.

That happened over half a century ago, and Cuba is still under sanctions as a result of that. Do you realise that?

With Mexico and the South American countries, the US cannot be such a bully. — ssu

History of U.S. Interventions in Latin America

Hello?


But honestly, you've already made my point:

Ukraine itself has huge strategic significance. — ssu

Exactly that. So say of Russia's behavior what you will - it was entirely predictable that it would respond the way it did and made it clear over the course of more than a decade.

The fact that the United States and the EU continued their efforts to incorporate Ukraine despite this obvious red line being drawn is the reason why Mearsheimer comes to his conclusions.

Georgia's European future is on hold
Unlike Ukraine and Moldova, Georgia will have to wait to obtain EU candidate status according to the opinion issued by the European Commission.

By Faustine Vincent
Published on June 23, 2022

There were two winners, and one loser. In issuing an opinion on Friday, June 17, granting Ukraine and Moldova European Union (EU) candidate status, the European Commission has paved the way for their accession.

But Georgia, which also has aspirations of joining the EU, will have to wait. The small Caucasus country must first implement reforms – reducing political polarization, strengthening the independence of the judiciary and fighting corruption – before it can claim that status, the Commission said.

Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova all applied for membership shortly after the Russian invasion of Ukraine on February 24. It is now up to the 27 Member States, meeting at a summit in Brussels on June 23 and 24, to study the Commission's opinion and to decide whether or not to grant these three former Soviet republics EU candidate status.

However, the European Commission did not close the door on Georgia, which fought a five-day war with Russia in August 2008. It recommended that the country be offered a "European perspective," meaning the potential right to membership, even if that has no legal value. "The door is wide open. It is up to Georgia now to take the necessary steps to move forward," said Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.

As far as the fight against corruption is concerned – a critical issue in both Moldova and Ukraine – Tbilisi has nevertheless made significant progress. In its 2021 report on corruption, the NGO Transparency International ranked Georgia 45th out of 180, compared to 105th for Moldova and 122nd for Ukraine.

The ruling party in Tbilisi, Georgian Dream, said it was happy to have a concrete road map but found it regrettable that the Commission did not support candidate status now. On June 17, Prime Minister Irakli Garibashvili had also welcomed "the historic decision to grant Georgia a European perspective." He added, "We will work with Brussels to implement all the requirements and we will obtain candidate status."

The European Commission's opinion is a setback for Georgia, where more than 80% of the population supports EU membership. About 120,000 people holding European and Georgian flags marched in Tbilisi on Monday to demand EU membership. Several pro-European organizations and all the opposition parties had called for a "march for Europe" to "prove the commitment of the Georgian people to their European choice and to Western values."

This demonstration, unprecedented in its scale, also aimed to protest the government, which stands accused of having deliberately failed to obtain EU candidate status. "Europe is a historic choice and aspiration for Georgians, for which all generations have made sacrifices," said the organizers in their statement. [...]

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/06/23/georgia-s-european-future-is-on-hold_5987790_4.html

This whole article can be paraphrased to read: "you must reform your economy so as demolish worker's rights, give international capital free reign over your society, and allow us to kill any local industry which is not subservient to Northern EU interests, and then maybe, maybe maybe, after we have blackmailed you for another ten years, you will be considered a 'candidate'". It's disgusting.

In exactly the same way as your whole contribution to this thread can be paraphrased to read: "I love Putin".

You guys keep building straw men, over and over again. Ask yourself why you need to lie about what this article is saying, why you need to deform reality all the time. You're too shallow to deal with the truth.

The truth is that the EU never forced anyone to join, that any member nation is free to leave it anytime, that 80% of Georgians want to join because they rightly see it as a guarantor of peace and development, and that it's the only damn place on earth that defends workers rights.

To think that Russia would leave it's neighbors alone if there wouldn't be NATO is extremely unlikely: it still thinks it has the right to control at least in some way it's former parts of the past empire. It hasn't given up on it's imperial aspirations. — ssu

Possibly, but you've still not countered the objection that they would never invade without any excuse (note 'excuse' not 'reason'). Every single invasion Russia has ever carried out in its modern incarnation has been for 'supporting separatists autonomy', or 'repelling NATO', or 'supporting legitimate governments against foreign intervention',... and so on. Never, not once, has it been "because we wanted that land".

So the policy of deliberately and knowingly providing Russia with whole raft of very real, gift-wrapped excuses is reckless at best, at worst deliberate provocation. We know full well that without those excuses it will not invade. Yet American interventions deliberately emboldened Neo-Nazi groups, deliberately stoked Anti-Russian sentiment in regions declaring their autonomy, deliberately pushed toward integration of Ukraine into NATO and the EU. In other words American interventions deliberately served up the exact excuses we all knew in advance were the difference between Putin merely wanting to invade a country (but not doing so) and Putin actually invading a country. I can't think what more deliberate provocation of a war a third party could have done.

To be clear. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit whether Putin wants to take over Ukraine, or Moldova, or Lithuania... What we care about is whether he will actually try to do so. The historical record shows categorically that the difference between the two is the presence of a legitimate-sounding excuse. Deliberately providing one of those excuses is therefore monumentally reckless, knowing the consequence of doing so. Deliberately providing an entire gift-basket of them is beyond reckless, it's manifest warmongering.

Your whole contribution on this thread can be paraphrased to read: "EU and NATI caca". — Olivier5

I wonder if the constant train of insults and snide remarks from the anti NATO camp is indicative of something, some fragility, a fear. Otherwise, why the constant put down? It's symptomatic of something. Perhaps just an attempt to protect the banal nihilism or whataboutism of our times against the return of the seemingly clearcut. — Olivier5

It writes itself :blush:

I've edited it. You are insulting yourself.

Many anglo-saxons hate the EU, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. They hate Brussels with a passion manufactured by Murdock.

And yet it's the only place on earth that defends workers rights.

You guys keep building straw men, over and over again. Ask yourself why you need to lie about what this article is saying, why you need to deform reality all the time. You're too shallow to deal with the truth. — Olivier5

I don't need to lie about what the article is saying because the article is a bunch of propaganda. Just as I don't report Russian propaganda as truth, I don't need to report EU propaganda as truth either. Anyone who knows anything about the EU knows it is a intuition which exists to turn poorer European nations into tyre factories while austricizing them into submission by means of strangling any fiscal autonomy and with it, any semblance of democracy. It's a vehicle for corporate power and those who suck its boots are similarly suckers for that corporate power.

Even if you decide that an article in BS and propaganda, it does not follow that a good strategy is to lie about it.

I repeat: the EU is the only place on earth that takes workers rights seriously. Your hatred of Europe is not fact-based. It is simply prejudiced. Seek help.

it does not follow that a good strategy is to lie about it. — Olivier5

I don't think you understand what a lie means. I won't hold it against you, English not being your first language and all.

the EU is the only place on earth that takes workers rights seriously. — Olivier5

I'm sorry that you know nothing about the institutions you like to defend. It's a tough spot. Very admirable I guess.

FYI, in English, to lie is to willingly misrepresent a state of affairs, which is exactly what you and Isaac do day in and day out. Straw man after straw man. Don't go all "define lying" on me. Rather ask yourself why you think you needed to lie about this article. What triggered that? And also, to whom are you really lying? To me, or to you?

Why does anyone keep engaging with @Streetlight? Are you all masochists? Take a load off.

*yawn*, says the person who says with a straight face that "the EU is the only place on earth that takes workers rights seriously". This is the stupidest statement to ever be made since the idea that the West cares about human rights and sovereignty in Ukraine.

Like, it doesn't take a moment of looking to see that the EU fucks poor countries and poor people everywhere it goes.

Ah, I see. The game of who is actually genuine. Note that Street isn't playing the same game as you.

And you know of a non-EU country doing any better? Let me guess, Australia?

Street is full if hatred and prejudice. I know that. I am also aware he's just trolling here. I'm just in the mood for shooting down trolls, that's all.

the EU is the only place on earth that takes workers rights seriously. — Olivier5

The European Union recorded the largest increase in slavery of any world region in 2017

Romania, Greece, Italy, Cyprus and Bulgaria [ranked] as the countries with the most slave labour within the EU — Reuters

Since you're so keen on definitions. Which part of "taking Worker's Rights seriously" involve increasing the number of actual slaves in the supply line?

And you know of a non-EU country doing any better? Let me guess, Australia? — Olivier5

I don't need to know of a "non-EU country doing better" to know that the EU fucks the poor.

You're welcome to keep directing attention away from the fact that the EU fucks the poor - and that you know nothing about it - but I will keep on topic.

Keep up the good fight, then. Just be sure to not cave to their tactics. Fight hatred with love, shame with jokes, rhetoric with imagination.

How's Australia doing?

The claim was that the EU took Worker's Rights seriously. It was not that other countries/institutions were even less serious.

A claim that Hitler was a kind and gentle person is not supported by pointing to the number of people Stalin killed. Both were bastards.

That you feel you have to choose between only the currently available options is your own lack of imagination. Don't confuse it for fact.

No idea what that's about, I'm on a different plane, mate. Take a deep breath.

No idea what that's about, I'm on a different plane, mate. Take a deep breath.

No idea what that's about, I'm on a different plane, mate. Take a deep breath.

It doesn't get any more satisfying or interesting a response with repetition, does it?

You tell me.

You tell me. — Noble Dust

No.

Do you actually have anything to say about worker's rights in the EU? Or Ukraine, Or literally anything of interest? Or shall we just end this here and hope the mods delete the whole sorry exchange?

Do you actually have anything to say about worker's rights in the EU? Or Ukraine — Isaac

I didn't comment here for that reason, no. Read my comments in order and you might get a sense.

All I want is for @Streetlight and @Isaac to enter the short story contest.