Also, I did mention it quite clearly in my previous post that selling antinatalism to the suffering is preaching to the choir. — Agent Smith
Full of sound and fury. Address the argument — Bartricks
I think its time to treat you as an innocent. Italian sounds most apt imo.Address it, Sound and Fury. The premises are clear. Deny one. — Bartricks
I am not hopeless (even in brackets). One person's romance can be experienced by another as pure trauma.I was a (hopeless) romantic too once. — Agent Smith
Do you really think the rich qualify as good parents merely because they are rich?I made it a point to mention the well-to-do and their right to have as many children as they wish. Only they'll never be able to ensure the happiness of their progeny to a 100%. — Agent Smith
I am not hopeless (even in brackets). One person's romance can be experienced by another as pure trauma. — universeness
Do you really think the rich qualify as good parents merely because they are rich?
Why do so many children of the rich end up as messed up as any child of a poor person? — universeness
Sweeping generalization? — Agent Smith
As you yourself agree, no economic or academic or sociological condition that you possess can protect your offspring from random happenstance harms. Suffering is just a bad justification for the antinatalist viewpoint because suffering is too complicated on the cost/benefits analysis scale for it to be used as the main justification for antinatalism — universeness
True, but for the poor, the sick, suffering > happiness. — Agent Smith
Antinatslism is for these demographics. Another issue is the difference in weightage of suffering & happiness: :sad: ≥≥ :smile: + :smile: + :smile: +... (you get the idea). — Agent Smith
To procreate is to create an innocent person. They haven't done anything yet. So they're innocent.
An innocent person deserves to come to no harm. Thus any harm - any harm whatever - that this person comes to, is undeserved. — Bartricks
You then proceed to make claims that presuppose that people exist prior to procreative acts being performed and desire to be brought here. That is not something one is entitled to believe. — Bartricks
Antinatalists, conveniently ignore, the massive harm and suffering many people would experience if they could not have children. People will turn to IVF or might even 'dump a loved partner,' because of their personal need to have a child. Are antinatalists REALLY accusing such people of being immoral?
Do they not care about how childlessness can cause great suffering for many people? — universeness
There's an argument in the OP. You need to address that argument. — Bartricks
Currently you are simply venting. — Bartricks
an unrecognizable and extraordinarily unhealthy lump of nonsense. — Bartricks
One does not have the right to impose a lifetime of injustice on another person — Bartricks
if procreative acts visit great injustices on those whom they create — Bartricks
Desiring to hurt others, for example, is a bad desire. — Bartricks
Would you or would you not put down an animal who is beyond help but suffering (intensely)? That is to say are you for or against mercy killing? I'd wager you aren't averse to putting the suffering out of their misery with a coup de grâce — Agent Smith
Some of us are in a whole lotta pain, mental/physical/both; so much pain in fact that such folks would even describe their existence as hell! Wouldn't you then honor their request to die (rather than suffer)? — Agent Smith
f such cases exist and one simply can't ensure that one's children won't ever end up in a similar situation, would you still want to have kids? — Agent Smith
First of all there's the anguish of not wanting to live and to add insult to injury one has to experience the agony of dying too. — Agent Smith
antinatalism probably spawned in a fit of severe depression and to that extent its validity is questionable. — Agent Smith
Like all things, antinatalism isn't meant for everybody, being reserved as it were for extreme suffering, — Agent Smith
Well, it doesn't exist anyway but do you not think an ETERNITY in heaven would become the same torturous experience as hell?Nobody wants to go to hell for sure! — Agent Smith
That should make natalists think a thousand times before they go preaching door to door. — Agent Smith
Let's meet halfway as I've been suggesting, unknowingly, all along. Those who can guarantee a reasonable degree of comfort for their children are welcome to procreate but those who can't should use contraceptives/avail of abortion clinics/at the very least, have fewer kids. Life isn't a bed of roses, but it ain't all sunshine and rainbows either. — Agent Smith
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