But if belief and faith are not based on argument, what is the point of complementing faith with arguments? What is the point of combatting faith with arguments? All this becomes nonsense. — Agustino
Nothing changes itself. — darthbarracuda
Briefly, if there is nothing outside the material universe, then there is nothing that can cause the universe to change. But it does change. Therefore there must be something in addition to the material universe. But the universe is the sum total of all matter, space and time. These three things depend on each other. Therefore this being outside the universe is outside matter, space and time. It is not a changing thing; it is the unchanging Source of change — darthbarracuda
Every single argument here is for deism and has been swatted down long ago. — Thorongil
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