But W seems clear enough here that he means "combinations of things". — bongo fury
"Fact" is used variously to refer to true propositions and states of affairs. — Janus
Yes, I think in the Tractaus 'fact' denotes states of affairs, and not the propositions that represent those states of affairs. — Janus
I'd taken it that the world in the Tractatus is all that is the case, not a collection of simples. — Banno
And so a true proposition is a fact — Banno
W: “1.1 The world is the totality of facts, not of things.”
Q: What is meant by “facts”? — Art48
2 What is the case—a fact—is the existence of states of affairs.
2.01 A state of affairs (a state of things) is a combination of objects (things). — Tractatus
2.063 The sum-total of reality is the world. — Tractatus
W: “2.01 An atomic fact is a combination of objects (entities, things).”
Q: Hm. “Objects” and “things” suggest material objects in the physical universe. — Art48
If you only knew how much this sentence characterizes the state of modern humanity. — schopenhauer1
As the world consists of logical possibilities, and as the world is a totality of facts, does this mean that even though "my dog has fleas" doesn't obtain in the world, because it is a possibility, it is still a fact ? — RussellA
1 The world is all that is the case.
[...]
1.21 Each item can be the case or not the case while everything else remains the same. — Wittgenstein
They weren't cherry-picking past usage. Read your sentence again. They were re-purposing words, which are scribbles and utterances, for new usages, just like we re-purposed bumps to use as words as braille, and arm and hand movements as sign-language.When we agree on new uses for a term we are essentially creating a new context with which we use the term.
— Harry Hindu
Sure. Cherry-picking cases of past usage that help to sell our new theory.
Weren't Newton & co. rather cheekily re-purposing psychological words like force ("courage, fortitude"), inertia ("unskillfulness, ignorance"), moment ("importance")? — bongo fury
Or that there are numerous/infinite worlds? — Merkwurdichliebe
I don't see a point to what you said more than:
That the dog has fleas is a fact.
"The dog has fleas" is a sentence.
That "The dog has fleas" is true is a fact.
"'The dog has fleas' is true" is a sentence.
That "'The dog has fleas' is true" is true is a fact.
""'The dog has fleas' is true" is true" is a sentence...
...and so on. — Banno
no contradiction so far in the text. — bongo fury
Objects need not be (material) things. The exact use of "name" and "object" is contentious. — Banno
objects (entities, things) — W
And so a true proposition is a fact
— Banno
True propositions mirror or picture facts, they are not facts in themselves. This is explained in W. picture theory of meaning. — Sam26
I'd taken it that the world in the Tractatus is all that is the case, not a collection of simples. That is, the difference between Russell's and Wittgenstein's logical atomism is that for Russell the simples are particulars (objects), while for Wittgenstein the simples are states of affairs. — Banno
Objects are simple.
— T 2.02
Objects make up the substance of the world. That is why they cannot be composite.
— T 2.021
The substance of the world can only determine a form, and not any material properties. For it is only by means of propositions that material properties are represented—only by the configuration of objects that they are produced.
— T 2.0231
It [substance] is form and content.
— T 2.025
Space, time, colour (being coloured) are forms of objects.
— T 2.0251
Objects are what is unalterable and subsistent; their configuration is what is changing and unstable.
— T 2.0271
In a state of affairs objects stand in a determinate relation to one another.
— T 2.031
Wittgenstein took stats of affairs as the building blocks. — Banno
The world is those propositions in logical space which are true — Banno
A proposition is a picture of reality.
The proposition is a model of the reality as we think (denken) it is.
— T 4.01
an abstract counterpart to the whole truth-bearer. Not just a dog that has fleas, but an abstract referent of "that the dog has fleas". Not just a thing, but a fact. — bongo fury
3.14 The propositional sign is a fact.
Well, no. Language can say lots of things that are not facts. I don't have a dog, for example, but I can use "My dog has fleas" in my posts.
The facts are those propositions which happen to be true. — Banno
Useful in developing computers, I suppose.
— Xtrix
If you only knew how much this sentence characterizes the state of modern humanity. — schopenhauer1
His idea that one cannot really say anything of "sense" when it comes to ethics, values, and aesthetics, is something that cannot be discussed, is to me, not radical but simply the formal version of the common man's idea of "Well, that's just your opinion, man". — schopenhauer1
For Russell, the atoms are objects and predicates, and logical operators — Banno
For Wittgenstein, the atoms are relations between objects. — Banno
For Russell, the atoms are objects and predicates, and logical operators, a direct rendering of Frege's syntax.
For Wittgenstein, the atoms are relations between objects. — Banno
So is Wittgenstein essentially subscribing to a correspondence theory of truth in this text? — Tom Storm
2.1511 Thus the picture is linked with reality; it reaches up to it.
So a sentence like, 'Jesus died for our sins' is presumably a sentence with no truth value. — Tom Storm
Such things are not to be said, but shown. The error of the logical positivists was to think that such nonsense utterances were hence devalued; but for Wittgenstein they were the very way one lives one's life, and so of the greatest value; but to be treated in silence and shown by what one does. — Banno
Of course logical operations are not logical operators, — Janus
the connection there would seem to tie in to the idea that facts are both states of affairs and the true propositions that represent those states of affairs. — Janus
True propositions mirror or picture facts, they are not facts in themselves. This is explained in W. picture theory of meaning. — Sam26
Such things are not to be said, but shown. — Banno
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