all the universal vastness may only be able to claim any significance through us! — universeness

and only for us?

Your post has Martin Rees written all over it. A compliment, not a put-down. Mankind in particular, life in general, has been reinstated, put back on the pedestal we were so unceremoniously knocked down from.

:up:

NASA releasing more images... the cosmic reef.

For comparison, here's the Hubble Deep Field image.
The increase in density and resolution with tremendous detail will add, after spectral analysis, another deep layer to the observed astronomical universe

and only for us? — magritte

Hopefully not. Come on SETI, find them aliens!

Your post has Martin Rees written all over it — Agent Smith

Absolutely although I first realised how important human consciousness may be to the universe via Carl Sagan, but Martin Rees, Astronomer Royal, another fantastic true seeker.

Thanks for sharing!

What an amazing, amazing achievement. One can only be in awe of these images.

Our place as the only species in the universe, as far as we know, that can build something like the James Webb telescope and find out a little more about the universe. — universeness

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future. This cosmic self-awareness is being realized in one tiny fragment of the universe — in a few of us human beings. Perhaps it has been realized elsewhere too, through the evolution of conscious living creatures on the planets of other stars. But on this our planet, it has never happened before. — Julian Huxley

(Mind you, both ‘tiny’ and ‘vast’ are matters of perspective.)

So they measured the light of a star as it passed though the atmosphere of a planet 1,500 light years away, and by the absorption pattern they found, they can say that the planet's atmosphere contains steam.

:gasp:

Water and carbon are the most plentiful substances in the universe, so chances are good.

Dude, they measured absorption lines in an atmosphere 1,500ly away.

Dude, they measured absorption lines in an atmosphere 1,500ly away. — Banno

I mean chances are good for ALIENS! That's a hell of a scope!

:up:

Water and carbon are the most plentiful substances in the universe, — Enrique

Not so, it's hydrogen, by a very large margin. There's an interesting special on Australian TV at the moment on carbon, https://iview.abc.net.au/show/carbon-the-unauthorised-biography which among other things points out that carbon is only ever produced by exploding stars (hence 'we are stardust', Joni Mitchell, one of the themes of the program.)

So they measured the light of a star as it passed though the atmosphere of a planet 1,500 light years away, and by the absorption pattern they found, they can say that the planet's atmosphere contains steam. — Banno

Dude, they measured absorption lines in an atmosphere 1,500ly away. — Banno

The phenomenal power of logic! What scientists are able to do these days could've been easily mistaken for sorcery a few hundred years ago! 1,500 light years away? That's 1.42 × 10¹⁶ km!!! :scream: That there are that many km in the distance we're talking about is an indication of how small humans are, relatively speaking of course.

It would be bittersweet if by some extraordinary discovery we were able to ascertain that there was a possible life-bearing planet several hundred or some thousands of light-years distant - bittersweet because no matter how fertile and inviting, it would be forever out of reach by us terrestrials.

(The nearest star to our Sun is Alpha Centauri - from memory - around 7 lya I think. Even that would be a voyage of thousands of years.)

Of course hydrogen is absolutely everywhere, but I read a physicist say that carbon and water are in most solar systems: comets, asteroids, planets etc. Fascinating that life resembling Earth's can possibly arise in so many places and we might scout where to look so precisely.

It's a digression, but I've always really liked the idea of panspermia. I got the book about it, Intelligent Universe, by Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe, back in the 1980's. Hoyle says there's vast clouds of proto-organic matter drifting around in the Universe, and that viruses and other fragmentary organic matter arrives on comets. It's an idea that has strong intuitive appeal for me. Check out https://www.panspermia.org/

possible life-bearing planet — Wayfarer

Signatures, distinct signs, of life!

We all seem to have vague ideas about what light-spectral identifying features of life are. Details, anyone have 'em?

I understand the signature is still too subtle to be detected. The SETI searches have been concentrating on transmitted signals, not biochemical markers.

Not wanting to derail, but just briefly saying that if thought can transcend classical time and space, why not nonlocal forces driving those thoughts in consort with electromagnetic structure? I think reason to hope for a Star Trek future exists, but we can agree to disagree.

Another thing:

How does the logic of biosignatures work?

Did the Mars rover "think"

1. If life then so and so biosignatures (scientific hypothesis i.e. amenable only to falsification)

OR

2. If so and so biosignatures then life (proof of life :snicker:)

OR

3. Both of the above

???

:ok: Danke.

The David-Goliath Paradox

As we go bigger and bigger (cosmic scale), to extract any information that maybe useful (e.g. alien life), our instruments must make smaller and smaller measurements.

:up: I think it's a very reasonable proposal that there may well be an emergent universal consciousness in the sense of a collective totality of all sentient life. If all sentient life could 'network' at some point in the future, what would that produce?

↪universeness :up: — Agent Smith

So I have to ask you a follow-up question based on your 'sometimes' support of antinatalism.
If there were no humans then fantastic inventions like the James Webb telescope could not happen.
Do such wonders not make you feel that human life is indeed worth the effort despite the presence of harms and suffering and that the views proposed by antinatalists on this forum are misguided.
Listen to @DA671 not the antinatalists!

(The nearest star to our Sun is Alpha Centauri - from memory - around 7 lya I think. Even that would be a voyage of thousands of years. — Wayfarer

Proxima Centauri is only 4.2 light-years away. It has an interesting planet, Proxima B.
Perhaps we will build space stations along the way eventually, stepping stones across space.
Generational ships is another future possibility and who knows what 'shortcuts' we may discover in the future. If your future transhuman body is good enough we may find ways to survive in space and live for thousands of years. Never say never my wayfaring friend!

Have a look at Yuri Milner's Breakthrough Starshot. I love the ambition, and the vision, but I'm dubious about the reality.

Have a look at Yuri Milner's Breakthrough Starshot. I love the ambition, and the vision, but I'm dubious about the reality. — Wayfarer

I am familiar with the starshot idea but it only offers information-gathering tiny probes. I am of course an enthusiastic fan of the starshot idea. I also despise billionaires in any form. Starshot should be under the control of a global space agency and not controlled by narcissistic billionaire boys with toys.

Spectacular events like these pics of billions of years old galaxies are few and far in between (the JWST took a decade + years). I don't begrudge people who go into a tizzy looking/describing these amazing images. Raining on other people's parade, not my style.

I'd even go out on a limb and say we can/may keep the problem of suffering on the backburner for the moment and get some of these awesome projects off the ground. Events/people/activities like these are, in my humble opinion, oases where humanity may rest, recuperate, refresh themselves in their voyage through the unforgiving desert life is. We must press on...let those of us who can, do so! Bonam Fortunam!