if one knowingly creates conditions by which individuals will befall harm in the future, one is morally responsible when that harm eventually befalls them — Tzeentch
As I said https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/720016, but you unfortunately ignored, ... — Isaac
When you have your own dilemma pointed out you too, it seems, reach for avoidance. — Isaac
You get points for imagination and evasive tactics! — Agent Smith
Thanks. I usually attack head on. But it is obvious that TPF is oversaturated with evasive tactics, so I feel the need to work on my evasive tactics so that I...can...fit...in!. :halo: — Merkwurdichliebe
The drowning man does not drown because I did not help him, but because he ended up in the water and could not swim. — Tzeentch
The same could be said for "depriving individuals of one's company" - one's choice of not getting involved isn't the cause, it's the person's desire for things outside himself that is the cause of his deprivation. — Tzeentch
Right. But the bomb causes the school to explode in your other analogy. You didn't cause it. — Isaac
By having children I don't actually cause the harm they might experience do I? — Isaac
Any 'harm' my children might experience in life is simply the result of their unrealistic expectations, not my fault. — Isaac
Creating children is likewise an act, which contributes to their harm. — Tzeentch
Again, having children is an act, and when one acts, one must take into the harm one causes. — Tzeentch
There's a fundamental difference between creating conditions, acting, and choosing not to create them, non-interference. — Tzeentch
Clearly, the only way out of this bottle (re Wittgenstein) is to assume that nonexistent people do have moral status i.e. they can be harmed/helped. — Agent Smith
How? I don't harm my kids. — Isaac
So's moving away from rather than toward a person. So's playing a computer game instead of helping them. — Isaac
If a house needs building, it takes five people to build it, you're one of only five people in the community. If, instead of helping to build the house, you decide to go for a walk, how are you not, by your action (going for a walk at the time the house needs building) 'creating the conditions' whereby that house will not be built and all the associated harms. — Isaac
My absence did not cause the house to not be built. — Tzeentch
by default people are not entitled to each other's action — Tzeentch
in the case of non-interference, I am not creating any conditions that are relevant to the incident, in this example the building of the house. — Tzeentch
I'm sure people will have some objections to my school-example, but intuitively it seems so. — Tzeentch
One has a kindergarten constructed. One knows the kindergarten isn't constructed well and will collapse at some point in the future. — Tzeentch
That would just be profoundly unethical, regardless of the fact that you don't know whether when it collapses anyone will be injured. It is unethical because it shows you have no moral sense in regard to the quality of what you have been contracted to provide. — Janus
However, 180 Proof got it right, the unborn are possible persons i.e. if permitted they become actual people and this is the difference that makes the difference - fictional people are devoid of potential to become an actual person.
If so, ethics/morality becomes applicable to the unborn. — Agent Smith
Jokes aside, this label of "availability" is a subjective one. — Tzeentch
You could say "I was never going to help with the houses anyway, I was just going to watch everyone die of exposure without lifting a finger". — Isaac
If you seriously think that sitting by watching others die of exposure but refusing to lift a finger to help is 'moral' then you're obviously going to end up with some seriously fucked up conclusions arising from that principle. — Isaac
What have you to say for the group of people who are genuinely miserable as a result of their parents' choices, and for whom it can be said their parents' choice did go against their interests? — Tzeentch
need to kill themselves asap. — 180 Proof
Getting the ball rolling is ultimately the parents' choice and no one else's, and if they must conclude that many things will be out of their control, then on what basis will they justify their choice? — Tzeentch
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