Now for the philosophical point (remembering that I don't care what Catholics think, I only care about what makes sense - which seems very different). — Bartricks
If a person is constrained by logic — Bartricks
I don't think it is possible to go beyond or change the laws of logic when the concept is properly understood. — A Christian Philosophy
Can it be said that logic frees rather than constrains? — Agent Smith
If so, the stone paradox is both a positive (god doesn't do irrational stuff) and a negative (god can't do irrational stuff). — Agent Smith
Too, suicide, an exclusively human phenomenon (recall your previous coupla-months-old post) simply won't make sense to animals. Is our relationship with god of a similar character? Clearly, there's something inanimate about life - a stone, a plane full of screaming passengers, both follow the laws of gravity. How often do we stop and examine a worm, a bug? Do we feel any compassion for microbes (jains excepted)? — Agent Smith
Yes.Do you agree that it is actual nonsense - an actual contradiction - to maintain that of two people, the one with less power is the more powerful? — Bartricks
No - not if the idea of "not bound by logic" is itself nonsense. If the concept of logic is in fact the way I understand it, then the question is equivalent to asking "Do you agree that a person who is capable of [insert nonsense, meaningless noise] is more powerful than one who is not?"Do you agree that a person who is not bound by logic is more powerful than one who is? — Bartricks
I have serious doubts that an actual Jesus existed, but, to the extent they both died similarly, they both died similarly.
Wow! But I thought you considered yourself a Christian? The clue is in the name!
I assume my assumption on this has been incorrect. So is your theism a personal belief in a god rather than a religious following?
Are you familiar with Joseph Atwill's 'Caesars Messiah' or James Valliant and Warren Fahey's 'Creating Christ?' — Hanover
Wow! But I thought you considered yourself a Christian — universeness
So why not just be a secular humanist, who have a similar goal of creating a better existence for humans on Earth.It's about bringing heaven to earth. And I speak metaphorically, as I describe no physical, tangible heaven. If this sounds like I'm trying to change your mind, I'm not. I couldn't care any less about your soul. I'm just pointing out that your criticisms are simplistic and applicable only to those belief systems you think exist. — Hanover
From an exchange we had months ago, when you declared yourself a theist.Why did you think that? — Hanover
After he stopped laughing he said that all three are dimensions of God which provide us with different levels of spirituality. Jesus provides redemption and everlasting life and a model of sacrifice; the holy spirit allows us to relate to God's message and communicates it to us; and God is the ineffable creator from which all emanates - including intelligibility, the true, good and beautiful. — Tom Storm
"According to sociologists Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera's review of numerous global studies on atheism, there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world's population) with China alone accounting for 200 million of that demographic."
I only said I was a theist. A thousand times — Hanover
A thousand times I said I was Jewish as well. — Hanover
I am interested in people's actual belief systems, as they directly affect what they choose to act upon. — universeness
I don't know whether it was intentional or not, but you spelled "evangelicals" as "evanhellicals. I like that. I'll use it. — BC
I agree, but I think the reason why, is that they are under attack from a growing global secular humanist movement and they are more and more desperate, to hold on to their main traditional places of power and influence, whilst also trying to establish new ones, anywhere in the world where there are poor and mostly uneducated masses.It isn't uniquely 'Christian' as the same thing is happening in Turkey (Islam) and India (Hindu) or even Burma (Bhuddist). There is a right-ward shift in several unrelated religions. — BC
I am pretty sure the number of dis-believers, non-believers, and believers-in-name-only is a lot higher than 7%. — BC
Afaik, protestants do not believe in the trinity.Where does trinitarian doctrine stand in Protestantis? — BC
:up:"Being atheist means never having to say you're Lutheran." Name of a past long-running improv show in Minneapolis. The title was worth the show. — BC
For me, the strongest push toward socialism came from my reading of the NT and OT. I still counted myself a believer when I was being pushed, and the pushing continued after I concluded I didn't believing," I used to say that Protestant Christianity was my operating system. (It's a metaphor.) Whether I still believed or not, I couldn't delete it. — BC
Afaik, protestants do not believe in the trinity.
The sacrifice has never made much sense. In a similar vein, it's hard to understand Matthew 4:1-11. Here Jesus is tempted by Satan, who offers Jesus all the kingdoms and riches of the world - “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” Pretty stupid temptation if Jesus is God, who created all things. What's this god supposed to do with some buildings and loot? Or, is Jesus just a guy and his 'son of God' title an honorarium? If so, the temptation makes more sense. Or, does none of it remotely matter? I'm in this camp. — Tom Storm
I think it's very important to challenge all theistic claims Tom. YES! it does remotely matter. — universeness
So why not just be a secular humanist, who have a similar goal of creating a better existence for humans on Earth — universeness
I'm fairly certain the majority of protestants in the US are trinitarians, though some protestant denominations are not. — wonderer1
Because I believe in the existence of God. — Hanover
Two main reasons. The truth is important to me, and my secular humanism needs no supernatural input to function. I find this functionality, to be very useful, based on my 99.999% conviction level that your god does not exist.Why don't you become a theist so that you'll have an underlying reason to promote humanity? — Hanover
I was saying whatever the story is meant to mean doesn't remotely matter. — Tom Storm
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