Creating joy is not an obligation. Not creating harms where it didn't have to take place is. — schopenhauer1
They generally don't take positions that put values on things. Rather, it is philosophical pessimism, and it's not dressed up. — schopenhauer1
There's either the desire to give life or not. — Xtrix
But not everyone views suffering and exclaims "life is refuted," which is what antienatalism rests on. If you don't share that attitude, then the rest is just nonsense. I don't share that attitude. — Xtrix
Again, for those who do -- fine. Then kill yourself, don't have kids, etc. That's your right. But why one wants to go around infecting others with this morbid view, anti-life view is beyond me. I guess that's your right too, in the end. What can you do. — Xtrix
It's dressed up nihilism. Always has been. — Xtrix
There are reasons people want to procreate.. whether or not they are ethical.. Understood and can agree if stated in those terms. But once you say, THEREFORE people should procreate, that becomes an ethical statement, or at the least, axiological. — schopenhauer1
I guess that's your right too, in the end. What can you do. Carry on! — Xtrix
Ethics is all about creating/preserving life while attempting to make the experience a memorable (read happy) one. — Agent Smith
Really? I thought it was about right action? You are putting a spin on it such that of course, antinatalism would thus never be "ethical".. If ethics entails procreation, thus antinatalism is not ethical. But of course, the antinatalist would never define ethics so. They would define ethics as principles of right and wrong behavior. — schopenhauer1
Thanos cared too much. I'm ignoring the "too much" part! — Agent Smith
What are these impositions of life?
Why should they be endured?
How should we treat each other if we must endure them?
What are we perpetuating when we create more people? — schopenhauer1
Well, you won't ever experience death. Death is simply, "The end". You'll experience dying if you're conscious at the time. But that's it. There is no peace, no rest, no etc.
— Philosophim
How do you know???? — baker
You can't, as is obvious to you, recommend nonexistence as a solution then, oui? — Agent Smith
I sympathize with the antinatalist crowd. Suffering tops the list of humanity's and also all life's problems - people seem too distracted to notice their own dukkha, especially in the modern world with cyberspace providing intermittent relief (for folks like myself). Billions are, to use a Matrix analogy, plugged in/jacked into virtual communities; I consider this a symptom of our dissatisfaction with the real world (dukkha manifests in interesting ways). In short antinatalism has a point. — Agent Smith
However, this also means that if people are happy, they'll choose life. — Agent Smith
1. Life + Happiness
2. Nonexistence
My gut instincts tell me that antinatalists should give their nod of approval for the order, it makes sense to them. Therein lies the rub, oui mes amies? — Agent Smith
If every life was an individualized utopia, you would have solid ground. It obviously isn't. So, yes, you can try to find happiness in life once born, but it doesn't negate that life entails a lot of other stuff as well, to be endured. And this isn't to be ignored. — schopenhauer1
I notice you don't answer my questions. Not a great way to dialogue.. and sort of unfair to me who is trying to do one. — schopenhauer1
Not a refusal to answer, but an inability to answer! — Agent Smith
Meaning is just another invention we make to trick ourselves into believing life is worthwhile. — Darkneos
I only have a problem when people want to banish it from any public forum. — schopenhauer1
However, this also means that if people are happy, they'll choose life.
Conclusion: :chin: — Agent Smith
I would suggest that genuine empathy is emotionally challenging for many people, especially if deeply felt but pity is a different harsher offering that entails only a very minor burden on my emotions. — universeness
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