:up: Stay with the light side of the force, Ya auld Jedi!

Stay with the light side of the force, Ya auld Jedi! — universeness

I hope I'll be able to remember that under fire! Muchas gracias!

Question: Have you ever had to lie to (your) kids?

I do not have kids but I would lie to them if it would be necessary to their safety

Not really, so far they are facts not beliefs. Anything saying you are not the body hasn't held up very well — Darkneos

You are your brain Baker. We've known that for decades in science now. Its not a debate. Scoop the brain out of someone and that aspect of the brain that was them is gone. It is only your imagination and hope that somehow you will continue on after death. You will not. That is fact. — Philosophim

This is a philosophy forum. This includes philosophy of science.

The OP's problem comes precisely from a lack of appreciation for the philosophy of science, and an uncritical internalization of particular scientific and popularly held claims.

It doesn't have to be interpreted as a negative take or mod judgement on the subject. E.g. We could say it's more convenient and efficient to have everything in one discussion. Anyhow, it took me years of careful consideration and preparation to come up with this cunning plan, so I'm not for backing down now. — Baden

Your point, while perhaps a fair one, seems not to have affected my position. — Jamal

Unfortunately, forums like this are the only place where this topic can be discussed in an at least half-way meaningful manner for ordinary people. Meawhile, the trend toward a favorable attitude toward assisted suicide and euthanasia continues. And with that, a favoring of a superficial take on the topic of "meaning of life". What is more, people who are supposedly happy with life nonchalantly advise others to kill themselves if they're not too keen on living. One would hope moderators would neither give such advice, nor passively approve of it.

Your little eeyore video simply implicitly extolls common decency, while your religion/spirituality promotes the pursuit of sensual pleasures. (The pursuit of sensual pleasures which is inevitably linked to the destruction of other living beings: animals, plants, other people.)

You yet have to show that you're not another one of Sisyphus' waterboys.

In a sense food lost its numero uno position in re labor to second place, below other more, let's just say, sublime aforementioned activities. To me this is a significant upgrade to the status of work which should matter — Agent Smith

On the contrary. People generally don't value food production enough, hence the abuse of the planet.

Whether it is or isn't enough really is up to you. It's your relationship to the world, to yourself, to your emotions and needs and people. There is no "reason" someone can give you to make you feel any differently about those. The unjust thing about this world is that it's probably not even your fault you feel this way -- but because it's your life, your emotions, your desire, well... it still falls to you to learn how to live with it. — Moliere

A person doesn't live in a socio-psychological vaccum. Thus neither the existential problem nor the solution to it are within the person's power.

Just dressed up nihilism.
— Xtrix

Wrong again.. At least get your terms correct. Nihilism in ethics, it he belief in no values. A nihilist wouldn't give a fuck if you procreated or not. They generally don't take positions that put values on things. Rather, it is philosophical pessimism, and it's not dressed up. — schopenhauer1

Ironically, both the antinatalists as well as the natalists are still firmly immersed in the pursuit of sensual pleasures, they differ only in which types of sensual pleasures they pursue.
The pursuit of sensual pleasures necessarily entails suffering.

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Well, I would say that I have quite a lot of things I enjoy, but at the end of the day I still question myself whether it´s all worth it. I love my family, friends, have an interesting job, enough money, love long walks, driving, cooking, coffee….but still there’s something at the back of my head saying - is it enough?

Also I do think that preferring “nothingness” is a stupid concept, because for me there’s nothing after death, no “you” to “enjoy” the preferred nothingness :roll: . For now suicide seems irrational.

So therefore the question why go on or better yet how to go on, what to strive for? (I mean it still could be just symptoms of depression, but who knows :confused: )

Also I do think that preferring “nothingness” is a stupid concept — rossii

Your core sounds like it has strength. You may well conquer your own negatives. For what it's worth to you, I hope you do.

Also I do think that preferring “nothingness” is a stupid concept, because for me there’s nothing after death, no “you” to “enjoy” the preferred nothingness :roll: . For now suicide seems irrational. — rossii

That's a lot of E.M. Cioran.. Ever read him?

Ironically, both the antinatalists as well as the natalists are still firmly immersed in the pursuit of sensual pleasures, they differ only in which types of sensual pleasures they pursue.
The pursuit of sensual pleasures necessarily entails suffering. — baker

Not sure why you think that, but ok.

I think fear and curiosity are the two main drivers.
Each has subcategories or synonyms, love being a subcategory of fear.
Its the desire for things to stay the same vs the desire for change. Love and fear are both about attachment: desire for stability, safety and comfort, all ways of coping with fear. Making friendships(love) helps protect us from dangers — Yohan

Hum, I thought getting married and having children was how to actualize myself as a woman. I used to feel very sorry for single people because they did not enjoy the benefits of love and marriage. I have noticed in my later years, that many older people chose to live near a son or daughter and grandchildren. I loved being a grandmother and great-grandmother. Saying that is about fear seems like an odd way of understanding the joys of family.

Saying that is about fear seems like an odd way of understanding the joys of family. — Athena

:clap: :clap:

. I used to feel very sorry for single people because they did not enjoy the benefits of love and marriage. — Athena

There are not benefits. Marriage is a community of sacrifices. Raising and maintaining a child is complex as hell and you do not how the tables would turn out in the future. Probably I can end up being cheated by my wife or mistreated by my own kid. So no... I prefer live in loneliness rather than being married.

Everything has it good sides and it's downsides. Marriage, which ends in a nasty divorce/breakup, can be traumatic and make you extremely unhappy and bitter. But so can be loneliness.

One has to appreciate the positive sides what your life has.

I should appreciate the positive sides of my life, indeed. But I think those positive feelings depend on my own. I never understood why there are some people who share half of their lives with another person. I respect it but I just don't get it.
Loneliness doesn't necessarily lead us to sadness. It depends on each context. If you appreciate being alone maybe this is the kind of life you should choose for.
Furthermore, marriage is not connected to affection. For example, I don't have a girlfriend, and neither Kids and friends. But I feel respected and esteemed inside this forum. To be honest with you, ssu, I guess I never be able to find such respect in real life

I guess I never be able to find such respect in real life — javi2541997

The members of this forum are part of real life. You type many interesting things and take nice photo's, why would that change if I met you in person?
I have never married and have no kids. I have been engaged twice' lived with women, had many short relationships but my long-term ones just never worked out. I, like you now, prefer my personal freedom compared to what is offered in a relationship but I am 58 now. Nature has turned its attention towards younger prospects for reproduction. I am now relatively irrelevant in the continuation of the species imperative but under the rules, I am still allowed to have lots of fun!

I would not change in person because the way I interact in this forum is how I really am in real life. If you ever met me in person you would see I am the same Javi in The Philosophy Forum and in physical world. I am not using masks here and I am happy the way I act inside this group.
But in physical world is different, or at least due to the type of persons surrounded with me. I always doubt if it is worthy to open my mind and hearts to them. I feel I would be disappointed...

I appreciated and understand your caution with those you don't know yet.
To me, it's a bit like the pioneer spirit. Social interaction has risk but can also have great rewards.
Sounds like you can have as many friends and relationships as you want Javi. You just have your own preferred approach and having the choice to get involved or not is yours. That's the kind of freedoms we all insist on, yes?

There are not benefits. Marriage is a community of sacrifices. Raising and maintaining a child is complex as hell and you do not how the tables would turn out in the future. Probably I can end up being cheated by my wife or mistreated by my own kid. So no... I prefer live in loneliness rather than being married. — javi2541997

I am sorry. Everything in life has some risk. You could have the best job in the world and a lovely house, great car, and loose it all. Then who will you be without everything that once defined you?

For sure marriage and family involve risk. It surely is not something anyone should do without a lot of talking! That piece of knowledge comes from hindsight. I took so much for granted and that was a mistake. So if you ever change your mind about marriage and family please remember to talk about everything that is important to you. There is really good information in books and on the internet and the more we know the better are our chances of doing well. This video is really good and perfect for you. It is about why we marry the wrong person. Please give it a try and tell me what think.

https://www.google.com/search?q=why+we+marry+the+wrong+person&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS926US926&oq=Why+we+marr&aqs=chrome.0.0i512l2j69i57j0i512l5j0i390l2.4428j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

That's the kind of freedoms we all insist on, yes? — universeness

Well, yes you are right somehow right. I am only 25 years old. So, I do not know what the future really holds and probably I make some friends the next year

Athena, I am so much appreciated of all information you have provided to me. But, trust me please. I do not see myself in a marriage because I already lived the experience of being heartbroken and I don't want to go through the same painful process.

:clap: Yeah, at 25, leave an inside light on and a wee door ajar, so that people can notice you and say hello!

I already lived the experience of being heartbroken and I don't want to go through the same painful process. — javi2541997

Happened to me three times so far. Dark, nasty and very very painful. It's Humpty Dumpty time, you almost have to put yourself together again from scratch but I really did come back again, each time, stronger but different. You lose the innocent you but my first was far worse than my second which was much worse than my third. I think I am almost immune now. I can still give as much as ever but I have much stronger armour against the 'unexpected.'

Hum, I thought getting married and having children was how to actualize myself as a woman. I used to feel very sorry for single people because they did not enjoy the benefits of love and marriage. I have noticed in my later years, that many older people chose to live near a son or daughter and grandchildren. I loved being a grandmother and great-grandmother. Saying that is about fear seems like an odd way of understanding the joys of family. — Athena

Curiosity can be part of the motive to be with others. But a desire to be soothed and affirmed by others, or needed and valued, I see it as relating to lack of self esteem.
Not that I deny such things. If I can't affirm myself I am not against being affirmed, and appreciate it. But I want to eventually be able to affirm myself.

Can grow from relationships as relationships bring up insecurities so they can be faced and overcome, learning how to be vulnerable but also how to have healthy boundaries.

I loved being a grandmother and great-grandmother. — Athena

Sorry, just noticed the tense, why the past tense? Just a typo? a 'd' that shouldn't be there, no alternate horrors I hope.