All this weird hand-wringing about rhetoric means little in the wake of such actions, in this case the unprecedented actions of federal law enforcement. Bill or Hilary were never raided, even when they lifted furniture from the Whitehouse or when they ran the fat cat hotel out of the Lincoln bedroom.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :point:

They are unprecedented reactions to unprecedented actions by Trump.

Hillary provided access to the entire email server and there was no issue surrounding paper documents because there was no probable cause she did that too. So she was cooperative. Trump on the other hand, knowingly retained documents that he knew he was supposed to return.

I'm not sure what situation with Bill you're referring to. He had sex with someone and I can't recall confidential information was involved.

Russian State Media Calls Trump 'Our Agent,' Believes Mar-A-Lago Raid Is 'Persecution'

"I'm very worried for our agent Trump. They found everything at Mar-a-Lago, they got packages of documents. In all seriousness, they say he should be executed as a person that was ready to hand off nuclear secrets to Russia," Solovyov said in the most recent broadcast of the state TV show, Sunday Evening with Vladimir Solovyov, as translated by The Daily Beast.

"[He could be declared] a Russian spy. Will we try to exchange him to bring Trump to Russia? Will they include Trump on the prisoner exchange list?"

:rofl:

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

All this weird hand-wringing about rhetoric means little in the wake of such actions, in this case the unprecedented actions of federal law enforcement. Bill or Hilary were never raided, even when they lifted furniture from the Whitehouse or when they ran the fat cat hotel out of the Lincoln bedroom. — NOS4A2

OK, let's play the whataboutism game.

The Clinton's returned, or paid for, what they took from the White House after it became an issue, and there were no national security implications.

Had Trump returned everything when initially asked, there would be no issue here either. It would have been deemed an inadvertent error, and it would be unlikely to result in any charges. Nevertheless, it would be just as worthy of public attention as Hillary's carelessness with having a server, and political fair game to remind voters about his vilification of Hillary for her poor judgment while then hypocritically doing something at least as bad.(Technically, worse, since Trump signed into law a new that made it a felony, and not just a misdemeanor).

Instead of returning everything, as he was required to do, he lied and said everything had been returned. This included some documents related to national security. Imagine if Hillary had continued to use her unsecure server after claiming she'd shut it down, and continuing to have classified documents on it.

What does it mean that Liz Cheney lost? Anything?This is something I've been wondering about.

:D Circus

These candidates lost badly, but now are claiming fraud
Stephen Fowler
NPR
Jul 2, 2022

I want y'all to know that I do not concede. I do not. And if the people who did this and cheated are watching, I do not concede. — Kandiss Taylor (Jun 4, 2022)

We didn't lose. We just found more fraud. — Tina Peters

It is impossible for me to concede under these circumstances. I owe it to my supporters. I owe it to all Nevadans of all parties to ensure that every legal vote is counted legitimately. — Joey Gilbert

... — Harrison Musselwhite, Lauren Martel

My vote to just remain a no isn't based on any evidence. It's not based on any facts, it's only based on my gut feeling and my own intuition, and that's all I need. — Couy Griffin (Jun 17, 2022)

Trumpeople.

What does it mean that Liz Cheney lost? Anything?This is something I've been wondering about. — Tate

For Cheney it means continuing her efforts to keep him out of office. If she is to help accomplish this it will not be with the support of the Trump Party. From an outsider's perspective, it does not look like what was once the Republican Party is ready to separate itself from Trump. Her sights are set on the national level rather than whatever is going on in Wyoming. She will not follow the current trend of working within the party by working against the Democrats. This is likely to be seen in a favorable light by moderates and Independents.

I think she will have a strong public presence, but she may be more effective speaking out seeking or holding public office. Much depends on the results of the current investigations into Trump and his company. Like the proverbial rats abandoning ship, a significant number of Republicans may come to see him as a liability. Taking the long view, Cheney might see the current situation as a temporary anomaly, and herself in the right position to regain political power in one form or another as things shift back to "normal".

it does not look like what was once the Republican Party is ready to separate itself from Trump. — Fooloso4

They really don't. Trump is still very influential.

Her sights are set on the national level rather than whatever is going on in Wyoming. She will not follow the current trend of working within the party by working against the Democrats. This is likely to be seen in a favorable light by moderates and Independents. — Fooloso4

Will she become a Democrat? I just don't see how the Republican party can endure as it is.

Taking the long view, Cheney might see the current situation as a temporary anomaly, and herself in the right position to regain political power in one form or another as things shift back to "normal". — Fooloso4

I'm not sure that's going to happen. Do you think it will?

Will she become a Democrat? — Tate

I don't think so. I think she will try to return the Republican Party to what she thought it represented pre-Trumpism.

I just don't see how the Republican party can endure as it is. — Tate

Just about everyone who is not with Trump has left. The party may endure but its principles clearly have not.

I'm not sure that's going to happen. Do you think it will? — Tate

I don't know. Prior to Trump I would not have thought that things could be as they are. Right now it seems that the differences that divide us are greater than anything that might unite us. But, of course, being united is not necessarily in itself something good.

It’s just the death throes of another establishment political dynasty. The Cheneys, the Clintons, the Bushs—all are heading towards the trash-bin of history.

Dynasty?

It’s like a bloodline.

Yea. I was more concerned about the fact that she lost to a Trump sycophant. Doesn't that bother you?

I love it. She lost to someone I never heard of, despite being coddled and fawned over by the legacy media, despite being a war monger and torture defender.

I love it. She lost to someone I never heard of, despite being coddled and fawned over by the legacy media, despite being a war monger and torture defender. — NOS4A2

Sure. She's the scum of the earth and everything. It's just Trump sort of booted her out for attacking him over his Three Stooges coup attempt. Doesn't that bother you? :love:

The people of Wyoming booted her out. I won’t lose a wink over it.

The people of Wyoming booted her out. I won’t lose a wink over it. — NOS4A2

Good point. It's democracy at work. I don't know about this democracy thing. It doesn't seem to be working in line with my values. What does one do in those cases? What's the correct philosophy there?

On the one hand, the poetic justice! On the other, the evidence that Trumpism mutates faster than a dose of Corona.

Matt Gaetz targeted by MAGA monster he helped create

Ahead of his GOP primary race next week, opponent Mark Lombardo's campaign released an ad that makes a provocative-yet-unproven claim about Gaetz’s relationship with Trump.

The ad questions Trump’s support for Gaetz (whom Trump has endorsed) by suggesting the former president may believe Gaetz was the secret informant who helped the FBI get a warrant to search Mar-a-Lago earlier this month.

“When Donald Trump really endorses someone, he goes big," a narrator in the ad states. "You’ve seen none of that for lying Matt Gaetz. What does Trump know? Is Gaetz the informant?”

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/matt-gaetz-mark-lombardo-ad-rcna43713

Most Hageman voters believe 2020 election was illegitimate, UW poll shows (Aug 15, 2022)

Sure hope that's not how she got more votes than Cheney.

I love it. She lost to someone I never heard of, despite being coddled and fawned over by the legacy media, despite being a war monger and torture defender. — NOS4A2

Torture defender... That's one area where she and Trump were on the same page.

I cannot deny that.

It’s just the death throes of another establishment political dynasty. The Cheneys, the Clintons, the Bushs—all are heading towards the trash-bin of history. — NOS4A2

Well, don't forget the Trumps then:

It’s just the death throes of another establishment political dynasty. The Cheneys, the Clintons, the Bushs — NOS4A2

Well, don't forget the Trumps then: — ssu

It is interesting to point out the fact of how a politician is reviled after the end of his legislature.
I cannot remember a "dynasty" who has good memories about their actions when they were in power. Whenever the legislature ends, most of the people get tired of them. We can say it is normal because a politician tend to worn-out during the course of a government. But this is insane.
Nobody ends up remembering them with good words.

So what is the real responsibility afterwards? How worthy is to put them in power?
I think the elections are there just to remove the old ones and put others. But what I mean is that none of them would make a real difference from the previous one.

Civil war...we can only hope. Unfortunately, just like nothing happened to Bush and Cheney for indisputably being outright war criminals, nothing will happen to Trump for all of his vague quasi-criminal offenses (which every president is more or less guilty of). — Merkwurdichliebe

Is there any real interest to do anything about Trump?

Why the colossal failure of the US justice system and the American public in general?

Is there any real interest to do anything about Trump — baker

Nope. Trump is just a political football for the democrats to whine about. If anything, Trump is merely a symptom of a greater problem.

Why the colossal failure of the US justice system and the American public in general? — baker

Decadence.

If anything, Trump is merely a symptom of a greater problem. — Merkwurdichliebe

:100:

Civil war...we can only hope. — Merkwurdichliebe

You're hoping for civil war?