Farther away in space and it doesn't even exist.

Farther away in time, back or forward, and it also doesn't even exist. — hope

No relative point of view can give a complete view of what reality is.
This is like the parable of the blind men trying to describe what an elephant is, each one grasping a different part of the elephant. Except, even with sight they wouldn't know what the essence of an elephant would be by that alone.
I theorize that intuition alone can grant essence realization.
Empirical science is a false God.

Ok you win. Independent of any observer, the earth is round enough in my opinion. G'day — Yohan

It's hopefully not about scoring points.

Which point of view is more objective.
The microscopic or macroscopic.
Far enough a way the earth looks like a shapeless blip
Closer, like a sphere
Closer, flat
Closer, neither flat nor curved exactly

How can you escape subjectivity? If there is no observer, which of the above perspectives would be true? — Yohan

Did you know scientists who are trying to determine the shape of the universe are worried about the same things you mention above. I recently got to know that the universe appears to be flat but those who claim this warn that it might be a local feature (too close).

I believe that it is round ish but is a conglomerate of several realms separated by watet

Water*

.

It's probably the same motivation as "religious philosophy": fear of reality (onto/vera-phobia). — 180 Proof

I disagree on that assessment since religious philosophy although it does center on the belief of God or Gods depending on the faith your talking about.

I do believe it offers other useful lessons on humanity and how we as a species over came struggle.

To me is just an over simplified answer to something that has a lot of rich historical account which has been proven. Proven by historians and anthropologist (I am speaking of the historical events not the theological perspective)

And the accounts with political conflicts between different territories, tribes and/or states. The development of human civilization on how a people in that time lived.

How religion in that time also substitute as a Government institution in attempt to provide some kind of civil order during a chaotic time.

It's probably the same motivation as "religious philosophy": fear of reality (onto/vera-phobia). — 180 Proof

“Alternative Philosophy” trying to come up with a politically correct term here without sounding like a critical jerk.

I’m fascinated by this topic due to the culture behind this belief, is like going to Woodstock.

Everyone knows Area 51, but no one cares about Hawkins Radiation and the recent discovery of a black hole.

Everyone will remember the Grey Alien dressed as Elvis but ask someone about Transhumanism. No one will care or dismiss it as insane talk. Oxymoron there I know.

I believe is a cultural perspective because this and I know is a stretch me saying this but... This type of science is simply more fun and exciting. Even if it is fake.

In mathematics an example of a two dimensional manifold is a sphere. Each point on the sphere is approximated by a flat plane (very small). As we stand on Mother Earth we are on one of these planes.

Therefore, the Earth is flat! :wink:

I sailed to the edge of a flat Earth in a dream before, but I'm not sure if that counts.

If you take the Bible literally, the earth is flat and circular with 4 corners on it like a modified pentagram

Bored with reality is more like it. — TheMadFool

No doubt a 'first world problem'. How sublimating and bourgeois ... (vide Zapffe)

No doubt a 'first world problem'. How sublimating and bourgeois ... (vide Zapffe) — 180 Proof

Not impossible. The 3rd world folks are have little time to ponder upon such matters as where to get the next adrenaline rush from, they remain fully occupied with matters more pressing - staying alive!

It's amazing how far ahead the West is, in terms of living standards, health, wealth even accounting for centuries of slavery and colonization - it takes brains and heart to use use resources, ill-gotten as they maybe, in ways that have such wide-ranging positive effects.

The gap between the 1st world and the 3rd world will take another coupla centuries to close. I hope it can be done smoothly and peacefully. Fingers crossed!

As long as "the first world" keeps interfering with and maldeveloping and resource + labor extracting from "the third world", they – the southern hemisphere (except China, maybe Brazil & India) – will lag further and further behind even the most impoverished swaths of developed nations. As for 'fear of reality', that's (almost) a cognitive bias, artifact of an enlarged forebrain that makes awareness of mortality inescapable and pressing. "Boredom", as you say, merely sublimates our congenital onto/vera-phobia by way of socialized distractions which include occasional, prolonged intervals during which distractions themselves seem interminably tedious and routine. Ennui (like anomie & acedia) belongs to the decadence / idleness of "overdevelopment" and is, therefore, a kind of learned helplessness, IMO, rather than a biological trait / reflex like fear.

As for 'fear of reality', that's (almost) a cognitive bias, artifact of an enlarged forebrain that makes awareness of mortality inescapable and pressing. — 180 Proof

I read somewhere that chimps develop a sense of self-awareness (forebrain) in their adolescent period (passing the mirror test) but then later on in adulthood lose it. Why? Self-awareness comes with accompanying baggage - thanatophobia (fear of death) - and so, some researchers say, it's better for some, not all, animals to switch off metacognition. I'm not sure how far this is true though. Do you suppose there's anything interesting going on with extreme sports vis-a-vis what I said about chimps, self-awareness and thanatophobia?

"Boredom", as you say, merely sublimates our congenital onto/vera-phobia by way of socialized distractions which include occasional, prolonged intervals during which distractions themselves seem interminably tedious and routine. Ennui (like anomie & acedia) belongs to the decadence / idleness of "overdevelopment" and is, therefore, a kind of learned helplessness, IMO, rather than a biological trait / reflex like fear. — 180 Proof

Yep! Fully agree!

Do you suppose there's anything interesting going on with extreme sports vis-a-vis what I said about chimps, self-awareness and thanatophobia? — TheMadFool

I don't understand the question.

I don't understand the question. — 180 Proof

Is it that an adult chimp losing faer self-awareness because of the extra burden it involves in re thanatophobia (amplified fear of death that comes with self-awareness) has a similarity to those who engage in extreme sports (risk of death)? After all, in both cases, death is key. One, the chimp, switches off metacognition (its easier to face death) and the other, extreme sports enthusiasts essentially downplaying the value of life (death's ok). In one case you turn off metacognition (lose self-awareness) to make death less painful and in the other case you devalue metacognition by taking wild risks.

Fool, you're going have to ask a primatologist. :monkey:

Fool, you're going have to ask a primatologist. :monkey: — 180 Proof

. . . extreme sports enthusiasts essentially downplaying the value of life (death's ok). In one case you turn off metacognition (lose self-awareness) to make death less painful and in the other case you devalue metacognition by taking wild risks. — TheMadFool

It makes me a bit uneasy when I read this sort of thing about extreme sports. It's similar to the Simone Biles' thread where everyone except a gymnast has something to say about her actions within the sport. But I suppose this forum is designed for somewhat naive discussions of almost any topic. As a participant in both gymnastics (ten years, long ago) and an extreme sport (fifty years) I see things differently. It's more complicated than you might think. If you are a participant you are on a different wavelength.

Wingsuit BASE jumping leaves me speechless, however. :fear: A sport I would never have tried!

It's more complicated than you might think — jgill

That was my point exactly. Extreme sports is defined by the level of risk to life and limb. If you ask me, they're at the leading edge of technology because many of the equipment used in extreme sports have to hold up in very unforgiving environments and that's not a 100% deal, hence the high mortality rates in this area.

Why would someone risk his life just to experience a, usually, brief period of excitement - how long does a skydiver take to land back on earth?

Many possible reasons of course but one that interests me is it amounts to negating one's life and survival instinct which is, in a way, rejecting your sense of self-awareness.



Zombies literally throwing themselves off what looks like 600 feet wall!

Many possible reasons of course but one that interests me is it amounts to negating one's life and survival instinct which is, in a way, rejecting your sense of self-awareness. — TheMadFool

There may be a whole spectrum of attitudes and reasons for extreme sports. Certainly, there is the exhilaration of substantial risk in some of them. I was a rock climber who did a huge amount of freesoloing (without equipment, etc. - you can look it up) so the risk was there but what was most enticing was the feeling of control and freedom, and continuous physical flow. Learning one's limitations and operating accordingly. A kind of dance on the rock.

This is obviously not what you are describing. Perhaps there are others here who have engaged in activities where "negating one's life . . ." They might add an interesting dimension to this discussion.

I would be surprised if anyone speaks up, though.

feeling of control and freedom, and continuous physical flow. — jgill

:rofl:

As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods;
They kill us for their sport. — Gloucester (King Lear)

Perhaps there are others here who have engaged in activities where "negating one's life . . ." They might add an interesting dimension to this discussion. — jgill

Yes, death is interesting but dying, I don't know.

feeling of control and freedom, and continuous physical flow. — jgill

:rofl: — TheMadFool

Well, you just roll around on the floor, missy! :razz: I was at university with this fellow:Mihaly C., and he went on to elaborate on the experience, expanding it far beyond climbing.

What does any of this have to do with flat Earth?

Republicans

Flat Earthers — SteveMinjares

Yes.

Alien Conspiracy Theorists

Yeah.

Lost Atlantis

This too.

Paranormal investigators

Obviously.

And my favorite Big Foot hunters

Yes.

I lied.

Yeah, I know "flat earthers" are violently allergic to all contrary evidence; still, I have to scratch this WTF itch:

i. Assuming "Earth is flat", explain why GPS, real-time satellite images or red-shifting sunsets are either individually or combined not sufficient evidence that Earth is round.

ii. Assuming "Earth is flat", explain why long distance callers can – often do – talk to each other during day (west) and at night (east), on either end, simultaneously.

I believe the OP is looking to uncover/analyze a particular mindset that's, in a sense, susceptible to what in the current epistemic climate can be described as bizarre beliefs. Quasi-psychosis, borderline schizophrenia i.e. nearly but not quite mad as a March hatter!

I believe the OP is looking to uncover/analyze a particular mindset that's, in a sense, susceptible to what in the current epistemic climate can be described as bizarre beliefs — Agent Smith

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/577241 :mask:

True, fear has a way of turning reality on its head and that's putting it mildly. In addition though, there's dissatisfaction aka dukkha and it manifests on occasion as ennui: Life, boring! Then the obvious reaction - fantasizing, the explosion of virtual worlds (games/internet) attests, naturally. It all boils down to getting that dopamine surge we seem so addicted to. At some point we just havta trust our biochemistry, that it's leading us towards the light so to speak. There will come a time nonetheless when we can (re)design our bodies, (bio)chemically, to customize our emotions so that, at a minimum, we don't enjoy inflicting pain on others (say no to sadism). Of course all this makes sense only within current moral paradigms. Panta rhei, oui monsieur?

:up: