You mean the characteristics that males have over females? Thats precisely the things that separate male and female athletics. — DingoJones
a female transgender athlete will have a different, unchangeable bone structure but reduced amounts of upper body muscle as compared to what they used to have within one or two years. — ToothyMaw
The point being it's not precise at all. Otherwise this thread would not be here. — Banno
The premiss that sex has dictates prowess has been shown wanting. — Banno
Tough shit for sport. their organisation is based on a parochial patriarchic attitude towards people. — Banno
You are missing the point. Sex is only a proxy for innate ability. That's what has caused the problem. Drop sex and find a way to measure innate ability. Then the competition can reward prowess. — Banno
There already are useful ways of measuring innate ability for the purpose of sports, one such way is by sex. — DingoJones
Also your way of thinking does nothing to protect women from getting their skulls crushed in a lopsided match up against a trans competitor so it sucks. — DingoJones
As I said, that is my primary concern in this topic. — DingoJones
The stuff between your legs doesn't make you run faster or kick better. — Banno
More Balls. basing a footy game or wrestling match on body weight or some such would do exactly that. — Banno
This looks disingenuous. — Banno
These things are pretty reliably categorized according to biological sex. — DingoJones
Sex is the strongest factor in the development of many of the criteria you would use. — DingoJones
What do you imagine my actual interest to be? — DingoJones
Seems to me that the problem stems from sport using the wrong criteria to group athletes. It's a congenital problem with the notion of "fair" competition.
Why gender, as opposed to height or bodyweight or muscle mass index or blood testosterone levels? — Banno
Why gender, as opposed to height or bodyweight or muscle mass index or blood testosterone levels? — Banno
It's a congenital problem with the notion of "fair" competition. — Banno
That is what I believe to be the common intuitive notion of fairness cited by people who are against transgender women competing with cisgender women in sports. — ToothyMaw
Your feigned moral outrage on behalf of the multitude of CIS women being "smashed" by the army of men pretending to be women is laughable. — Banno
Check the science. FGI. — Banno
These things were pretty reliably categorised according to biological sex. Now that's not such a good proxy. So why not base the categorisation on what is actually significant - Fast twitch muscle fibre, testosterone during puberty and whatever.... — Banno
Tough shit for sport. their organisation is based on a parochial patriarchic attitude towards people. — Banno
These things were pretty reliably categorised according to biological sex. Now that's not such a good proxy. So why not base the categorisation on what is actually significant - Fast twitch muscle fibre, testosterone during puberty and whatever.... — Banno
I've no idea.
I'm amused at the whole issue. What it actually shows is how arbitrary the classifications used in sports are. It's an intellectually muddled area. — Banno
Is it gender that sports uses to group athletes? Or is it sex? — Michael
I don’t know what any such characteristics would be. I can imagine waking up in a woman’s body, whether by magic or a brain transplant, and yet I’d continue to identify as a man, so it certainly doesn’t have anything to do with my body. And I can’t think of what psychological traits I have, except the obvious of identifying as a man, that would count as being such characteristics.
You needed a law for that? — Banno
Right, an important distinction for this discussion thank you.
My understanding is gender is the way you feel about your sex, and sex being the biology of how you were born.
I thought that was the generally understood distinction?
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