The T schema does cover both of these cases. — Luke
For almost every case I can imagine, p is always a fact of our world, our conventions and/or our myths and stories. These might all amount to the same thing. — Luke
Sometimes something is true because you say it. You cannot apply the above reasoning to everything. — Michael
No theory of truth is going to cover every use of the concept truth. It seems that most uses of the concept, though, do point to a relationship between propositional beliefs, and states-of-affairs. In this sense there is a kind of correspondence or association between the propositional belief, and those states-of-affairs that make the proposition true, as opposed to false. As with the word game, we have a set of family resemblances that guide us when using the concept. There are no hard and fast definitions that work in every social context. — Sam26
Ok but aren't you rainin' on my parade and on others' parades too? Is there no other way than to just poop at someone's party?
Beauty, to me, is the very cosmos itself! — Agent Smith
Is there some singular term we can use to describe the sort of thing p is? Maybe "narrative"? — Michael
Sometimes that narrative is a fact and sometimes it is a fiction. Which is really just another way of saying that sometimes the narrative is true and sometimes it is false... — Michael
...making the T-schema just the redundancy theory that the sentences "'p' is true" and "p" mean the same thing. — Michael
I don't agree that the distinction between fact and fiction corresponds to the distinction between true and false. It is true that Mickey Mouse wears red shorts and that vampires have no reflection. — Luke
As I mentioned before, we need a more substantive account of meaning (and perhaps truth) to actually get anywhere important. — Michael
For almost every case I can imagine, p is always a fact of our world, our conventions and/or our myths and stories. These might all amount to the same thing.
Per Wittgenstein:
241. “So you are saying that human agreement decides what is true and what is false?” — What is true or false is what human beings say; and it is in their language that human beings agree. This is agreement not in opinions, but rather in form of life.
— Philosophical Investigations — Luke
Heh, hopefully I'm just making a point about the domain of "P" -- though this is philosophy, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm on team anti-parade — Moliere
What does that tell us about truth, then? And how are we even able to compare these theories? Is it that there is no truth at all, or an undefined truth? Or is there simply a toy logic we invent in the moment which allows us to temporarily compare these theories among one another, but which ultimately results in no insight -- a formalism of truth? — Moliere
The correspondence theory of truth - necessary but not sufficient, ok, but in what sense? Logically, aesthetically, spiritually, for no apparent reason, on a whim, a fancy, what? — Agent Smith
This proposed reduction ignores the fact that 'telling the truth" refers to making a statement about what one honestly believes, and there is no necessary connection between what one honestly believes, and any real "states of affairs". — Metaphysician Undercover
What does that tell us about truth, then? And how are we even able to compare these theories? Is it that there is no truth at all, or an undefined truth? Or is there simply a toy logic we invent in the moment which allows us to temporarily compare these theories among one another, but which ultimately results in no insight -- a formalism of truth? — Moliere
The theory says that a proposition is true provided there exists a fact corresponding to it. — Pie
You present an argument that language is arbitrary, which in a sense it is, then jump to the non sequitur that truth is relative.The truth is what I say it is — RussellA
You present an account of institutional facts, in which the direction of fit is word-to-world. and then jump to the non sequitur that all utterances are of this sort. They are not.Is what I say true, true — RussellA
No theory of truth is going to cover every use of the concept truth. It seems that most uses of the concept, though, do point to a relationship between propositional beliefs, and states-of-affairs. In this sense there is a kind of correspondence or association between the propositional belief, and those states-of-affairs that make the proposition true, as opposed to false. As with the word game, we have a set of family resemblances that guide us when using the concept. There are no hard and fast definitions that work in every social context. — Sam26
I don't think so. Most uses of "truth" point to honesty, as in "are you telling the truth?". It's just a certain type of philosopher, practising a defective form of epistemology, who wants to reduce "telling the truth" to a "relationship between propositional beliefs, and states-of-affairs". — Metaphysician Undercover
But with the caveat of the liars paradox, right? I said it just because it seemed like the most obvious thing that would break the logic. — Moliere
The exercise here is to find an appropriate grammar that explicates what is going on. — Banno
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