Yeah, I think there's a bit of this. But that can also just be perception. Not everyone who feels excluded is actively being excluded, even if they're not being actively welcomed either. — Srap Tasmaner

I can imagine that coming here is like walking into a bar in a strange town where everyone seems to know what's going down except you.

You're giving an unsought response. If i wanted to ask for clarification i would have done so a while back.

Good to see one you're doing well.

Ok.

@Amity Was it that @NOS4A2 said that we should grow thicker skins? Maybe I wouldn't put it that way because some of us can't so simply change our reaction to unpleasantness and shouldn't be expected to. The rest of what he said was pretty insightful though I thought.

Really?
— Amity

Yes, why not? — Baden

A one-word response indicating agreement with a heady cocktail of sour lemon and cherry twist?
See my disagreement above.
Last evening post.
Cheers :party:

Oh, right, I see now. I thought it was just a gin and orange. :chin:

this type of modding strictness question comes up periodically and it's never been possible to discern a clear majority either way, which suggests to me the community is roughly evenly split on the issue — Baden

I don't think that follows, especially since part of the issue is whether some members are less inclined to raise their hands.

I absolutely agree there's no clear mandate for doing either more or less moderating.

You could, right here on the site, do a poll. Probably of limited value, but it might be interesting. I'll bet if you offered the goldilocks options (too much, about right, too little) that "about right" would win in a landslide, which I think would tell you basically nothing.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/2210/moderation-standards-poll/p1

:wink:

Ah, you have nostalgia for Good old-fashioned Boys' Own Own Fisticuffs, eh? — Amity

Sarcasm doesn't transfer well over here. I intended that remark sarcastically.

There will always be passive aggression, usually, a coping mechanism to avoid direct confrontation. — Amity

Only allowing direct confrontation in a debate to those who express themselves temperately is much too high a bar I think. I would not want to moderate to that standard.

It's just far too much work to have the mods actually sorting the wheat from the chaff word by word, sentence by sentence, or even paragraph by paragraph. And I was never comfortable deciding whether a point was relevant or substantive -- I wanted to leave that to the community. — Srap Tasmaner

That was my experience too. I have never managed to intervene to get more aggressive style posters to post less aggressively long term. In each case either they were tolerated because it wasn't disruptive, or eventually warned/banned if it was.

I never deleted anything as irrelevant. Even the guideline to "stay on topic" struck me as ridiculous on this site, where every thread meanders into being about something else than the OP eventually, and I never enforced that.

Largely the same here. A couple of threads I've tried to keep strictly on topic before, it was a lot of work. It becomes more work the more on fire something gets.

Why edits?
It only makes the culprit look better than he/she is, if there is no reason given for it.
So not easy to identify any pattern.

Why not a simple warning? Why would a dialogue be necessary?
First Warning, 2nd... a process... — Amity

Edits because the majority of borderline cases at the minute do have substantive content in them, and if you go about warning people not to post with too aggressive a tone, you lose lots of substantive content.

When you moderate someone for the purposes of improving how they engage, you must give feedback. It isn't the case that everyone even knows how to engage civilly, consistently, when riled.

Like you, my concern has been with the perception of TPF by newcomers, but hey... sink or swim :roll: — Amity

Exactly like that comment. That would not be acceptable in a more academic and civil context. For now you'll get away with it because we tolerate some amount of aggression of tone and condescension. See what I mean?

In the world where such comments are moderated, I could indeed give you a warning to resort less easily to snark. That is why dialogue in such cases is necessary.

Yeah, and that's another piece of name-calling, innit? The not-cool look :wink: — Amity

It isn't a crappy job because it's not cool, it's a crappy job because it rarely works, tends to escalate an aggressive poster's habits, and means that either you end up managing someone's content and emotions at the same time as watching their posts more carefully. It's a lot more work for an extremely rare payoff, and often an extremely unpleasant series of exchanges.

:up:

I don't even remember that!

And I correctly retrodicted its result.

And only 41 people voted.

I've always assumed we have that Pareto thing here, 80% of posts coming from 20% of posters, and the percentage of members who post is tiny, right? So part of the complication is for whom are we moderating? For the regulars? For the discouraged newbies? For the lurkers? For the sometime posters who get fed up and quit?

This is the sort of stuff online games go through regularly, and there are no solutions known to make everyone happy.

a crappy job — fdrake

It's also crappy if you don't like treating adults like children.

We’re not meeting. I’m sitting alone. I’m just saying that perhaps it isn’t as social as we make it out to be. The problem with social media is how anti-social it all is. There is a severe absence of social cues, body language, proximity to others, and so on. I wager none of this would be a problem if we were all kicking it the pub, face-to-face. It’s an exercise in reading and writing, maybe tantamount to writing letters or leaving messages on a board or something, but little more than that.

At any rate we know nothing about one another. That’s why all attempts at bullying and cruelty are a swing-and-a-miss and shouldn’t be taken so personally. It’s almost cringeworthy how far they miss the mark. Their efforts could never be more than catharsis or propaganda. But to silence them is a double evil because not only does it negate their right to express themselves but also my right to read it.

In the end the final decision is left to the owners and those delegated to the task of moderation. If we don’t like it we leave, find another space, or make our own.

Can't do much with unsubstantiated claims against unnamed posters but we obviously don't support trolling sprees by anyone and the debate here as far as I understand it is whether to extend the type of modding we apply to philosophical threads to political threads. — Baden

If I recall the incidents that Sky is referring to correctly, the cowardly ambush occurred in the territory where some topics go to die, namely the lounge. Moderation seems to be understandably lackadaisical in that section.

Oh, I don't remember that but it's true I rarely look in the lounge at all. I should probably keep a better eye on that.

Thank you.
I wrote a long reply and then lost it.
It ended with a deep appreciation of all that the mods have to endure.
This discussion has been an eye-opener.

It's too easy for me to sit here and offer criticism, even if with the best intentions, I will now stop.
Sending you all a heap of cheers and goodwill :100: :heart: :flower:

I wager none of this would be a problem if we were all kicking it the pub, face-to-face. — NOS4A2

I agree. That's exactly what I was meaning.

In the end the final decision is left to the owners and those delegated to the task of moderation. If we don’t like it we leave, find another space, or make our own. — NOS4A2

Exactly.
Cheers :party:

Wait a sec, is that the one where @skyblack is calling y'all sissies and yellow bellies and you posted a picture of a turd?

Is there a reason why you have pinged me again?

My sense of humor has matured greatly since then.

Anyway, the incident may provide an example of the virtue of self-moderation. The so called yellow bellies ceased and desisted of their own accord and without bothering moderators.

:up:

@Baden

It might be better for you not to try that again. Thank you.

It might be better for you not to try that again. — skyblack

Did you mean for this to sound like a threat?

Try what? Mention you in a comment that's relevant to a complaint that you brought up? I'm afraid that's part and parcel of being a member here.



If so, it would be nice to know what I did that was threatworthy before I ban said member.

@Baden

Try what? Mention you in a comment that's relevant to a complaint that you brought up? I'm afraid that's part and parcel of being a member here. — Baden

I have never "brought up any compliant" to you or to any of the moderators even though you have asked me both here, and in private messages, to do so. In the above posts you can be seen doing the same thing, asking for names and urging me to get into the matters, which i ended by telling you, which is a fact, that you are responding to a message that wasn't directed at you, and giving explanations that are unsought.

That wasn't a threat. It was a suggestion, so that you don't look silly, trying to continuously stir the pot, yet failing.

But feel free to go ahead with the ban if you feel it is needed.

But feel free to go ahead with the ban if you feel it is needed. — skyblack

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Oh Hey! I was actually thinking of saying hello to you today. How you feelin'?

I never "brought up any compliant" to you or to any of the moderators even though you have asked me both here, and in private messages — skyblack

I haven't sent you any PMs. Unless it's a very long time ago and I've forgotten. I wasn't trying to ban you either seeing as I expected it wasn't really a threat. You raised an issue and I looked into it. That's all.

I remember you were the only one that had welcomed me when i initially joined and at that time i wasn't sure what to make of it. But having read some of your posts, felt like saying hello.

Like i said, don't expect me to play your games. I will slap you just as easy as i would slap that coward.

Oh Hey! I was actually thinking of saying hello to you today. How you feelin'? — skyblack

Quick on the draw with my back in the corner behind what feels like enemy lines..
You are very kind for asking :flower:
Thank you for your sweet words about me.

:smile: