Bill Gates' donations should be treated and appreciated as charity. No where does capitalism say that once you become wealthy, you have social responsibilities and this is implied in our (all of us) deal with capitalism. In my estimation everyone agrees on this point. — Agent Smith
If he is a genuine philantrophist ln the way I think Joseph Rowntree or Paul Newman was, then fine, to me, that's the absolute least they could do and this should be expected and not praised because to do otherwise would make them vile.When Owen allows them a crumb of ‘charity’ they glorify his kindness and generosity. — universeness
First of all, gracias for attempting to make me see the light. I feel capitalism is all about competition and it models evolution in my humble opinion. — Agent Smith
Most? Of course not. But it is simply a wealth transfer. And those who have no other income, it works just like an unemployment benefit. And also, important, labour is very organized hence the labour unions have a lot of say. A fixed UBI for everybody would be inflationary, for the vast lower taxes might be better.Do you really think that something like UBI would mean that most people would choose not to work or take part in activities which would help the society they live in and benefit from? — universeness
The rich are indeed a product of the 'law of the jungle rules' and this is one of the main reasons why the majority of the worlds population continue to suffer under that exact uncivilised, savage law. — universeness
In an RBE the idea is to automate or industrialize all repetitive production/work. — Josh Alfred
Having an UBI I think would be a nice and almost dogged transition to an RBE. — Josh Alfred
If you don't have a home, you are subsidies from the city/community that you get a small flat (or in the country side, a small house). Unemployment is perpetual, until you die. So you can live on these meager welfare and if you can find a low income job, a cleaner or an assistants position in a hospital or pensioner's home, you really have to judge which option, taking the job or not, will you take. Your basic income will only marginally go up and then you have to work 9 to 5 or more. — ssu
Some simply give up: once they have never worked earlier, they will not get hired. And that's that. There are families in Finland where the children have not worked and where the parents have not worked. It's a huge stigma and once met these dropped out teenagers, I couldn't believe the level of apathy it takes you into. But this is only the bad side. — ssu
Well done Finland!The good side is that there's no homeless people in the streets. — ssu
Not so good Finland!The beggars that you find in the city center (if you find them) are from other EU countries, likely from Romania, not Finns — ssu
Do you think the criminal mindset is born or created by experience or a bit of both?Those who are criminals, likely really want to be criminals. — ssu
Traumatised people need the most help and care to recover, if they even can recover from such hell as war.The era of old style homeless men (some WW2 veterans back in the age) are not so frequent in parks at summer. — ssu
Hence when you have perpetual unemployment benefits and housing is a right, it really questions why UBI? — ssu
Perhaps that is true, but it is also unavoidable. — Tzeentch
When it comes down to it, there aren't many more flavors and it's a shit sandwich either way. — Tzeentch
Some one is going to own of the automation, rather it be of higher class, or some collective insured ownership. — Josh Alfred
There's plenty on youtube about the RBE system — Josh Alfred
That is. I have more in my home today than nobility had in years past. — Hanover
You still have a underclass in your envisioned society. It's just a bit higher an underclass than what currently exists — Hanover
Do you really think that the human race is powerless to change this? — universeness
Would this system not offer a better way to do politics in the UK? — universeness
If you mean the fact that the disagreeable, competitive, competent types get to rule, yes, I think mankind is unable to change that except if it somehow this personality type would cease to exist. — Tzeentch
They excel by nature at accruing wealth and/or power, and it seems impossible to prevent this from happening because to do so would mean one has to employ coercive measures, and that power then has to be wielded by someone - who is going to do that? The exact same type of person. — Tzeentch
:up:I like the idea of not allowing political parties — Tzeentch
And while this isn't a criticism of your idea, I would note the following:
- No system is immune to corruption. It seems even systems that disemminate power, feature short terms and plenty of checks & balances, etc. eventually fall to corruption. — Tzeentch
That centralization concentrates power in the hands of fewer people, and will speed up the process of corruption. Additionally, taking this power away again rarely happens, not in the least because those in power will try to consolidate. — Tzeentch
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. — Agent Smith
Well, it does feel terrible to be at the bottom of the food chain. — Agent Smith
Well, the chickens are also still here and not extinct but they don't have the freedoms most humans do.it seems to be the way nature works - its gotten us this far hasn't it? — Agent Smith
Your own family tree is probably marked by many ruthless, brutish characters - you wouldn't be here otherwise — Agent Smith
In short, on the matter of survival (of one's genes), morality is a hindrance; that's how I explain this to myself anyway. It's in our nature to, well, "neutralize" competitors. — Agent Smith
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. — Agent Smith
I think that the future effects of global social media and its resultant global organisation of the masses will drown out such small minority self-serving individuals. — universeness
There is a great deal of historical evidence to back-up what you type here but I don't think it will be ever thus. Social justice and an acceptable level of economic parity has been fought for since we left the wilds. Progress has been slow, but there has been clear, undeniable progress and 2022 years or even 10,000 years of tears is only a few seconds in the cosmic calendar. — universeness
I actually support getting rid of all concepts of nationhood and I support world government. Perhaps the biggest hierarchy possible on the planet is the best way to go. Who will we compete with when we are united as one planet and one species? — universeness
Won't those just be bought and paid for by those same self-serving individuals, like most media is today? — Tzeentch
It's worrying to me how quickly things like freedom of speech end up on the chopping block when it suits the powerful, and what worries me even more is how easily people accept it. — Tzeentch
Playing the advocate of the devil here; wouldn't world domination be the wet dream of any uncivilized savage? — Tzeentch
To get rich is glorious. — Deng Xiaoping
1. To get rich is ethical — Agent Smith
1, To get rich is ethical no matter how you achieve it and there must be a majority of poor, inferior undeserving unfortunates for the rich to compare themselves to. — universeness
So, should all us inferior, undeserving, unfortunates accept the dictates of the rich 'law of the jungle' predators or should we keep fighting against them? — universeness
If you get more as unemployed than working at McDonalds, who would work at McDonalds? It's not an awesome bonus on your CV. Or at least when your in your 20's. Why just hmmm... enjoy sports or discuss things on a Philosophy Forum than take those orders at the drive in?Very interesting! Do you think the welfare offered should not be so meagre then? — universeness
Unemployment benefit is never taken away. Naturally they urge you to look for jobs, provide courses, but there's no penalties like being kicked out of the system. So basically, you'll get unemployement benefits until 65 years, and then you get state pension. Although they have, I guess, taken the American statistical gimmick that over certain period people aren't unemployed, they are just discouraged workers. As if those looking for jobs are just the ones unemployed.Why is unemployment perpetual until you die? — universeness
In fact they experimented with UBI here in Finland. The results were a mixed bag, but not so hugely positive that UBI would be implemented in Finland. Here's an official video of the experiment results:The Finish system seems much better than the UK one but it seems to me from your description of it, shows that its not FINnISHed yet (sorry! :blush: ), perhaps a UBI which is enough for an individual to live 'in comfort,' is needed. Is your health service free at point of delivery? — universeness
Pecunia non olet. :snicker: — Agent Smith
I'm not saying we should let injustice continue but I don't see an alternative; if there's one then it's communism OR capitalism and we seem to have opted for the latter. Perhaps my ignorance of economics & politics is showing. — Agent Smith
So why not socialism/humanism and a resource based economy? — universeness
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