The story I prefer to tell myself is one of metacultural development from mythos (infancy) to logos (adolescence) to ethos (adulthood) to philosophos (maturity — 180 Proof
. I wouldn't swap science for mythology. But I'm wary of hindsight and narrator bias. The ancients weren't dumb and we ain't too clever. — Cuthbert
lives on in QAnon — Tom Storm
The ancients weren't dumb and we ain't too clever. — Cuthbert
If you are interested in this topic you can read it here: The origin of philosophy: The Attributes of Mythic. — javi2541997
[emphasis added]5. Myths are morally ambivalent.
The gods and heroes do not always do what is right or admirable, and mythic stories do not often have edifying moral lessons to teach.
Ex 1:
The Egyptian god Seth (St) murdered and dismembered his brother Osiris (Wsir) and is later attacked for this by Osiris's son Horus. But Seth is then forgiven by Isis (ꜢSt), his sister and the wife of Osiris and mother of Horus, even though Seth had badly damaged Horus's eye in their fight.
[...]
the Egyptians recognized the moral awkwardness of putting the name of Osiris's murderer on his temple, but this did not discredit the cult of Seth or the king named after him. Some gods are just like that. But they are still gods.
Ex 2:
The Greek hero of the Iliad, Achilles, seems to be a far less admirable character than the Trojan hero, Hector, whom Achilles slays at the climax of the epic.
Changed in Philosophy: The Presocratic philosopher Xenophanes criticizes the poets for ascribing shameful acts to the gods:
Heraclitus condemns blood sacrifice and the worship of idols. The moralization of the Greek gods is thoroughly effected by Socrates and Plato, who cannot imagine the gods doing anything wrong or evil. A similar moral critique is carried out in contemporary Persian religion by the prophet Zoroaster (Zaraθuštra)... — Myth, Philosophy, Why the Greeks?, Parmenides, Greek History
Which are your thoughts on this topic? Do you know other examples about mythopoeic? — javi2541997
[emphasis added]How was Greek philosophy different from what came before? Or was it different?
Even though "philosophy," φιλοσοφία, philosophía, is a Greek word (rendered into Arabic as , falsafah), from φιλεῖν, phileîn, "to love," and σοφία, sophía, "wisdom," perhaps it was just a continuation of how people had always thought about things anyway. After all, it is not uncommon now for items of Egyptian literature, like the Instruction of Ptaḥḥotep, to be listed and taught as Egyptian "philosophy" (although the Tale of the Eloquent Peasant contains principles superior to much modern jurisprudence).
So if Greek philosophy is to be thought of as different, there must be ways of specifying that difference. Similarly, if Greek philosophy is to be compared with Indian (, darshana-shâstra) and Chinese (; Japanese tetsugaku) philosophy, there must be something that they have in common, and that can be mutually contrasted with pre-philosophical thought. — As above
I'm rather sceptical about historical timelines that suggest continual improvement towards a pinnacle of intellectual achievement that is - happily and co-incidentally - our own enlightened times and beliefs - which we may then enjoy contrasting with the benighted superstitions of the ancients. I wouldn't swap science for mythology. But I'm wary of hindsight and narrator bias. The ancients weren't dumb and we ain't too clever. — Cuthbert
Thus, myths are not argumentative. Indeed, they often seem most unserious, humorous, or flippant (e.g. Rê-Khepere above).
It still seems to be a psychological truth that people who think of new things are often persuaded of their truth just because they thought of them. And now, oddly, we are without an explanation for creativity. — As above
Sadly, we currently live in a social context which depends on scientific materialism. It looks like the truth is based on some mathematical formulas but we forget and give up on imagination. — javi2541997
Thanks for the article. I noticed your OP lists only 4 out of the 5 characteristics of myth and changes in philosophy as listed. The 5th: — Amity
How true is it?
Where is the evidence; how do you know? — Amity
A brief description of ideas and principles characteristic of the Friesian and other modifications of Kantian philosophy editorially recommended in the Proceedings of the Friesian School, Fourth Series:... — The Principles of Friesian Philosophy
The Proceedings of the Friesian School, Fourth Series is therefore founded on the determination that the lapse of Friesian philosophy in English cannot be allowed to be. Now, Leonard Nelson and Friesian principles will be here on the World Wide Web, however heretical they are, for anyone looking for alternatives to the sterile, nihilistic, or illiberal mainstream of 20th and now 21st Century thought. Let this be the Palladium of Friesian Philosophy. — The Proceedings of the Friesian School
I didn't want to put the point number 5 because I was worried about being so tiresome. — javi2541997
It's only tiresome if no questions are asked...and so far, the text has proved a useful starting point.
Thanks — Amity
A brief description of ideas and principles characteristic of the Friesian and other modifications of Kantian philosophy editorially recommended in the Proceedings of the Friesian School, Fourth Series:... — The Principles of Friesian Philosophy
Sadly, we currently live in a social context which depends on scientific materialism. It looks like the truth is based on some mathematical formulas but we forget and give up on imagination.
— javi2541997
Wow. That is some general statement or claim to make.
How true is it?
Where is the evidence; how do you know? — Amity
Easy. Just check out what the millionaires spend their money: meta-verses, cryto-coins, fake internet worlds, artificial cells to live longer, private trips to Mars or Moon, etc...
Those "investments" are pure materialistic — javi2541997
This common underlying worldview is known as "scientific materialism" or "scientism." As defined by twentieth century philosophers William James and Alfred North Whitehead, for instance, scientific materialism is the belief that physical reality, as made available to the natural sciences, is all that truly exists [Haught2010, pg. 48].
It is clear that there is little room for religion in this philosophical system, since religion involves faith in unseen and presumably empirically untestable entities.
But religion is not the only victim of this worldview. If we fully accept scientific materialism, we would also have to discard art, literature, music, and many other fields of human endeavor that are essential aspects of our modern world. — science meets religion: scientific materialism
Imagination is involved in a wide variety of human activities, and has been explored from a wide range of philosophical perspectives. Philosophers of mind have examined imagination’s role in mindreading and in pretense. Philosophical aestheticians have examined imagination’s role in creating and in engaging with different types of artworks. Epistemologists have examined imagination’s role in theoretical thought experiments and in practical decision-making. Philosophers of language have examined imagination’s role in irony and metaphor. — SEP: Imagination
Whenever I start a thread I am worried about if the users would like it or not... — javi2541997
I fully recommend you that philophical website. It is so interesting and there is a lot of information. You can learn a lot! — javi2541997
How many people find any kind of 'truth based on some mathematical formulas'? — Amity
Imagination is an inherent aspect of thought.
Imagination is involved in a wide variety of human activities,... — Amity
've started threads that don't inspire others :groan:
But that's not my prime motivation. — Amity
How many people find any kind of 'truth based on some mathematical formulas'?
— Amity
To be honest, I personally think most of the people think in this way — javi2541997
In my view there are two different types of language: pure linguistic (fulfilled by philosophy, readings, mythology, religion, rhetoric, history, etc...) and mathematical (Physics, Chemistry, Maths, engineering, etc...) — javi2541997
Nevertheless, it looks like that there is a big part of the population who is sceptical about some theories if you do not show them with "essays" and "formulas" — javi2541997
I would sound "out of phase" but I think I will learn more about my life thanks to both mythology and philosophy rather than "AI" or robots resolving formulas. — javi2541997
I was only claiming more "freedom" in our imagination trying to avoid taboos or limitations. — javi2541997
But another important fact is how the thinkers/philosophers get rid of obstacles. — javi2541997
Perhaps a particular field but I have no idea what the ordinary person knows of 'mathematical formulas'? — Amity
How is that 'out of phase' — Amity
I think I understand. You mean away from the extreme or inflexible dogmas/institutions?
I don't think that is the same as your original claim but never mind. — Amity
Thanks for the conversation — Amity
No. What I mean is the possibility to develop arguments and essays in a pure humanistic view. Not depending on scientific validity for verification. — javi2541997
I see your point, but I cannot say that people regard Mythology as a world of untruths. We all know what important role played and a revered place it had in antiquity throughout the world. And that's why it is still and will always be taught in schools.Those who view mythology as untruths probably miss the point of this large corpus of ancient wisdom. — Agent Smith
Those who view mythology as untruths probably miss the point of this large corpus of ancient wisdom. — Agent Smith
The myth of the metals in the Republic is called a "noble lie".
The muses tell Hesiod that they speak lies like the truth (Theogony 27) — Fooloso4
It is not so simple — Fooloso4
Man has the tendency to degrade things that were once very important but are not used any more to a considerable degree. And as I can see clearly, Philosophy is also included in them. Unfortunately! — Alkis Piskas
I just looked up the Greek word "mythos" (= myth) in my dictionary of Ancient Greek Language --a huge one!. Both meanings are included, but with a slightly different description. The first meaning refers to speech, narration, story, independently of being true or false. The second one refers again to story but imaginary or ficticious. A known example is Aesop's fables.The literal-figurative distinction probably didn't exist in antiquity or didn't matter as much as it does today. — Agent Smith
Si ! :smile:Fact & fiction merged together, all in an attempt to make sense of the world which seems to have been priority #1. This anticipated science - reason (facts/observation) + imagination (fiction/hypotheses/theories) - in a sense, oui? — Agent Smith
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