The Historical Jesus in Context is a landmark collection that places the gospel narratives in their full literary, social, and archaeological context. More than twenty-five internationally recognized experts offer new translations and descriptions of a broad range of texts that shed new light on the Jesus of history, including pagan prayers and private inscriptions, miracle tales and martyrdoms, parables and fables, divorce decrees and imperial propaganda.
But instead the thread bleats on about scriptural interpretation and Jewish history and so on... — Banno
I don't see how the question of his teachings can be separated from questions of interpretation and the context within which those teaching occured, that is, the teachings and practices of his fellow Jews. — Fooloso4
Haven't you read what I said? "So, you are right. It's not so simple!' Which means, I have acknowledged and accepted what you are repeating above.Again, it is not so simple. — Fooloso4
I'm no longer interrested in the subject since a few posts ago. Besides, I'm far from an expert on it. So, please sort it out yourself. Sorry.What should I believe? — Art48
Haven't you read what I said? — Alkis Piskas
The background here is Jesus vs Pharisees. I have made that clear. I gave two references on that. — Alkis Piskas
Which means, I'm not actually interested. — Alkis Piskas
If a moral teaching is doing what is already found in the tradition should the "great moral teaching" be attributed to the one who repeats it? — Fooloso4
The moral teachings themselves, in distinction from the teachings about him, have much more in common with the teachings of the Jewish sects of his time than any differences we may find. — Fooloso4
The greatness of a moral teaching lies solely in the goodness of its contents. — Tzeentch
The person who repeats it, or even the person who invents it, are in my opinion not relevant at all to the worth of a teaching. — Tzeentch
They do not have that much in common with Judaism in general and at certain points can be even be considered polar opposites. — Tzeentch
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Christianity has much more in common with classical Greek philosophy, especially (neo-)Platonism. — Tzeentch
What pisses me off about threads such as this is that, from a philosophical vantage, if Jesus is a great moral teacher, then we ought be able to cite his great moral teachings. Hence my comment about charity.
But instead the thread bleats on about scriptural interpretation and Jewish history and so on... — Banno
• For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ Matthew 15:4
— Art48
This is not what Jesus himself believed and taught! This was his reply to Pharisees who asked him "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders?", referring them to their own scriptures.
How can Jesus ever say or think such a thing at the moment he was agains killing? (https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/MAT.15.1-20, https://biblehub.com/matthew/15-2.htm)
I was amazed by reading such a thing, esp. in here. And consider that I am not even a fan of Jesus. — Alkis Piskas
↪Alkis Piskas
It is not so simple. What is at issue is the distinction between tradition and commandments. (Matthew 15:3) The background here is likely to be the dispute between Paul and Jesus' disciples regarding the Law. Jesus not only quotes the commandment, he says elsewhere that all the commandments, even the least, must be upheld (Matthew 5:17-20).
How can Jesus ever say or think such a thing at the moment he was agains killing?
— Alkis Piskas
The prohibition against killing is one of the ten commandments. The obvious problem is, how can one
uphold all the commandment when one commandment says do not kill and another says that one who reviles his mother and father must die? One possible answer lies in the distinction between death and wrongful death. The full statement passage from Matthew is:
You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment. (5:20)
It is the second clause, which does not appear in the Hebrew Bible, that seems to support the distinction between death and wrongful death. Whether the action is wrong and punishable will be judged. If it is in accord with the commandment then it cannot be wrong. — Fooloso4
Put differently, the further we get from Jesus, the less apparent the Jewish roots of his teaching and the more it comes to resemble the pagan beliefs of Greece and Rome. — Fooloso4
It's only logical, isn't?Actually you were correct in your assessment that " ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’" is not what Jesus Himself believed and taught. — ThinkOfOne
Jesus was anointed by God (Luke 4), — ThinkOfOne
In essence, the entirety of the true ways of God boils down to what is often referred to as "The Golden Rule". Jesus effectively replaced a rules-based understanding of the ways of God (the OT) with a conceptual understanding (The Golden Rule). — ThinkOfOne
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
:fire:[T]he further we get from Jesus, the less apparent the Jewish roots of his teaching and the more it comes to resemble the pagan beliefs of Greece and Rome. This is not at all surprising given that following Paul's preaching to the gentiles the distinction between Jew and Gentile grew and became more and more acrimonious and Christianity came more and more to resemble the gentile world. — Fooloso4
Jesus of course isn’t a philosopher — schopenhauer1
Actually you were correct in your assessment that " ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’" is not what Jesus Himself believed and taught.
— ThinkOfOne
It's only logical, isn't?
Thank you. Well, at least one acknowledgment! :smile:
Anyway, it's silly to argue about things that are known to be plenty of inaccuracies, biases and question marks. That's why I have withdrawn myself from this subject. — Alkis Piskas
That said, I suspect that some who post on this site are a bit short on logical thinking skills and/or the basic teaching of Jesus. Likely they mindlessly repeat things they found on the internet. — ThinkOfOne
The smallest letter and stroke of the pen refer to what is written. — Fooloso4
I never said that Jesus did. There are many parts of the OT which are compatible with the "Golden Rule" There are parts that are not. You lost the context of what I wrote.He does not say to ignore all that written stuff. — Fooloso4
Jesus read from the Book of Isaiah presenting it as prophecy of which He Himself is the fulfillment (4:21). You missed the context of Luke 4.It is Isaiah not Jesus who claims to have been anointed (4:18) — Fooloso4
Yet this argument is straight out of the evangelical Christian playbook. — ThinkOfOne
It all begins with the belief that the entirety of the Bible is the "inerrant word of God" — ThinkOfOne
Similarly with "not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away". Clearly Jesus MUST be "referring to what is written". — ThinkOfOne
Never mind that Jesus often used figurative language. — ThinkOfOne
Never mind that elsewhere in Matthew says that, in essence, the whole of the law and the prophets has the "Golden Rule" as its basis. — ThinkOfOne
Jesus read from the Book of Isaiah presenting it as prophecy of which He Himself is the fulfillment (4:21). — ThinkOfOne
Jesus was anointed by God (Luke 4) — ThinkOfOne
"give sight to the blind". — ThinkOfOne
... the Sovereign Lord will make righteousness and praise spring up before all nations. (61:11)
Are you unaware of the necessity of reading in context in order to comprehend what you are reading? — ThinkOfOne
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